ESA appeal query

damo6666

Hi guys, great forum. I've been on work related ESA for the past year but failed my recent atos medical with 12 points. I've printed out the relevant questionairre and duplicated the same answers i gave on the esa50 and actually, really score 36 so where do they get 12 points from? Idiots. I've already filled in 2 appeal forms(gl24)and mailed them seperately just in case the dwp " accidentally lose one on purpose " if you get my drift. I've also asked them if the atos staff are incapable of simple arithmetic as they are 24 points adrift with their conclusion. I posted these one day after receiving the letter indicating that my esa had stopped and also sent the duplicate questionnaire with the answers i provided, in addition to the points i SHOULD have been awarded while indicating that much criteria has been omitted otherwise my score would be significantly higher. At this point - do i need to send any sick notes in? And also, what benefits can i claim while i'm waiting, or will esa payments continue please? All the best. Damian.

NASA_2

Firstly, what you think your points total should have been is pretty irrelevant, it would be lunacy to allow claimants to score themselves.

The DWP dont lose forms on purpose - the sheer volume of post is such that some post is bound to go missing - its actually a fairly small % of post that goes missing.

To the less whingy parts of your post - You need to start sending sick notes in during your appeal and you can continue to claim ESA during this period.

RWhitton

Hi Damian,
I am not surprised to hear this ... I recently failed my medical with 0 points and am certainly in no position to work right now, although I would love to and hate being stuck at home. I think most people generally do have a pretty good idea of whether or not they are able to work, although of course plenty of people try to take advantage of the system.
Anyway, yes, you still need to send in sick notes and I would recommend you getting yourself down to your local Citizens Advice Bureau. The majority of people are failing their medicals at the moment due the the last governments desperate need to save money wherever they can. The CAB can go through your appeal with you, and will write a report which will be submitted to the tribunal and will hopefully help get you the support you need.
Your ESA will continue at the lower rate until/when you pass the tribunal, at which point the money you have missed out on will be back-dated and you can live a little more comfortably, or at least be able to eat!
I hope this helps a bit.
All the best.

NASA_2

I have to add - the majority of cases are upheld in favour of the department.

So most claimants lose their entitlement.

Tibbs,The_Freebie_Hunter

NASA wrote: »

I have to add - the majority of cases are upheld in favour of the department.

So most claimants lose their entitlement.

If this statement applies to the UK, in general, where are the statistics (or the source) to back this?

If you are referring to to a specific region or that you work in a specific department, then I think such a sweeping generalisation is unhelpful.

The area in which I live has such strict medicals that the majority pass on appeal.

I also think it depends on the individual's circumstances. People should always appeal.

One such example is that a person was given 6 points, told pointless appealing (and just to go on JSA), but then got 30 points from first tier tribunal and was also awarded DLA.

Tibbs,The_Freebie_Hunter

damo6666 wrote: »

Hi guys, great forum. I've been on work related ESA for the past year but failed my recent atos medical with 12 points. I've printed out the relevant questionairre and duplicated the same answers i gave on the esa50 and actually, really score 36 so where do they get 12 points from? Idiots. I've already filled in 2 appeal forms(gl24)and mailed them seperately just in case the dwp " accidentally lose one on purpose " if you get my drift. I've also asked them if the atos staff are incapable of simple arithmetic as they are 24 points adrift with their conclusion. I posted these one day after receiving the letter indicating that my esa had stopped and also sent the duplicate questionnaire with the answers i provided, in addition to the points i SHOULD have been awarded while indicating that much criteria has been omitted otherwise my score would be significantly higher. At this point - do i need to send any sick notes in? And also, what benefits can i claim while i'm waiting, or will esa payments continue please? All the best. Damian.

I would suggest that you contact CAB with all of your paperwork, and get them to handle your appeal from this point on.

NASA_2

Tibbs,The_Freebie_Hunter wrote: »

If this statement applies to the UK, in general, where are the statistics (or the source) to back this?

If you are referring to to a specific region or that you work in a specific department, then I think such a sweeping generalisation is unhelpful.

The area in which I live has such strict medicals that the majority pass on appeal.

I also think it depends on the individual's circumstances. People should always appeal.

One such example is that a person was given 6 points, told pointless appealing (and just to go on JSA), but then got 30 points from first tier tribunal and was also awarded DLA.

The stats are out there. 60% are upheld in the Departments favour.

I cant be bothered looking for the official stats but you can look if you want.

dmg24

Tibbs,The_Freebie_Hunter wrote: »

If this statement applies to the UK, in general, where are the statistics (or the source) to back this?

If you are referring to to a specific region or that you work in a specific department, then I think such a sweeping generalisation is unhelpful.

The area in which I live has such strict medicals that the majority pass on appeal.

I also think it depends on the individual's circumstances. People should always appeal.

One such example is that a person was given 6 points, told pointless appealing (and just to go on JSA), but then got 30 points from first tier tribunal and was also awarded DLA.

NASA is correct, nationally the majority of appeals do fail. The information is available on the DWP website if you wish to verify it.

I would also suggest that, if you ask someone to back up their statement, perhaps you should do the same?

healy

NASA is correct, it is a higher percentage of appellants that lose their appeal than win their appeal.

The stats are there if anyone wants to look for them but from memory about 40 to 45% of appellants are successful at appeal. This percentage increases if they have representation.

speedfreek1000

The interesting point is that the number of appeals means that the DWP (who have 2 chances at it before appeal) are coming to incorrect decisions in an extremely high number of cases.

If ESA was working correctly the vast majority of these appeals wouldn't exist let alone win at appeal as the correct decision would be reached.

In 2007-08 its total intake was 229,130 and in 2008-09, 242,830. The intake for 2009-10 was at 140,854 up to the end of September, and by the end of the year, it expects this figure to have risen to over 300,000.[123] We were told the bulk of the increase was a result of a rise in the number of appeals for ESA and IB.

Now the other issue is that these appeals cost us money. Money that is effectively being waisted due to incorrect decision making.

The increase in Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) appeals has put a considerable strain on the Tribunals Service's resources. We welcome the budget transfer of £8,600,000 from DWP but this is a short-term solution. We ask DWP to confirm what action it is undertaking in response to this increase.

Before anybody says prove it read for yourself http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmworpen/313/31307.htm#note125

caela_2

NASA wrote: »

Firstly, what you think your points total should have been is pretty irrelevant, it would be lunacy to allow claimants to score themselves.

The DWP dont lose forms on purpose - the sheer volume of post is such that some post is bound to go missing - its actually a fairly small % of post that goes missing.

To the less whingy parts of your post - You need to start sending sick notes in during your appeal and you can continue to claim ESA during this period.

Just out of interest, have you ever dealt with DWP? Even with their online application they have lost my forms- how??? Every time as well. Not only that, when I send in letters they seem to go missing and when I brought this up at a tribunal they actually lied and said they had got it!

Send everything to DWP recorded delivery, it's always best. I know they're busy blah blah blah but they can be very disorganised and it's big mistakes they end up messing with people's benefits. The assessor they sent round for my DLA reported no medical conditions at all- I actually requested the report. He literally lied. He said from seeing me in ten minutes, he could note no obvious mental health problems. I have OCD- I was in the shower when he got there, late for an interview at my OWN home, continued to clean around him when he was talking and was very easily distracted all the way through- all signs of OCD. I don't know if he was expecting me to be washing my hands in bleach or something, but as a nurse he wasn't in anyway certified to assess a diagnosis of mental health. He also looked at my knees which audibly grind when I move them and said they were just fine. You can feel the uneven cartilidge through the knee cap, it's very obvious.

Having dealt with them in this fashion, I have no doubt that the DWP can be very hard to work with and I understand they may well have made a mistake with the OPs assessment, since many disabled people have reported not scoring enough points when they are obviously unfit for work. It is a very good idea that he used their online service to mark his own assessment because it shows that they may have omitted information from the report, explaining why the score was so low. It's a good comparison to show that there is a significant difference between the actual results and the predicted results.

And as for him being wingy about the whole thing, yeah, wouldn't you be if you were losing a claim for ESA and were faced with a financial situation where you couldn't work either? It's an uneccessary hassle based on the propaganda that so many people are fraudulently claiming benefits so they need to be stringent- actually, they're just making it difficult for everyone so that no-one can claim; they're the real fraudsters. The percentage of people scamming the benefits system is relitively low and is much publicised as an excuse to treat people this way. However, the percentage of people who were entitled to benefits but have none the less been denied is much higher and then consider the people fighting tooth and nail in tribunals. I'm not saying give the money out with no checks. It's just that their process has become largely impossible for many people with disabilities. It's so hard, it actually means you have to be fairly fit and capable to complete a claim as a lot of genuine cases are too stressed to manage. An assessment should be fair and impartial, which doesn't seem to be the case. I would rather a few scammers got under the radar than a whole bunch of entitled people didn't get benefits at all, it's for the greater good.