Israeli Economic or Military Sanctions?

PhylPho

Brit: It's probably too early to pass opinion here, still less judgment. I have absolutely no idea of what actually happened nor, I suspect, does anyone else.

I do know, however, that since Hamas defeated Fatah in the 2005 Gaza election, and enshrined within its declaration of governance an intention to achieve the "extinction" of the Israeli State, Israel has made clear its determination to interdict any and all shipping and supplies to Gaza on grounds of national defence, it being Israel's claim that military hardware has been shipped in before, and intended for cross-border rocket attacks.

Israel's interdiction system has not been challenged hitherto, and so at least one of the questions arising today must be: why now? And to what purpose?

I'm no apologist for a State that is both a serial breaker of UN Resolutions and an utterly amoral dictator whose territorial land grab has continued regardless of consequence.

I am, however, a realist, and so cannot discount the way agent provocateurs of whatever background, and for whatever reason, will always seek to precipitate crises where no crisis need have arisen.

Those who organised this "flotilla" were acutely aware of Israel's sentivities, Israel's defensiveness -- and Israel's cack-handedness when it comes to security issues (or didn't the recent rumpus over the assassins-with-British-passports even dawn on them?)

Being aware of all that, the "flotilla" could -- and in my opinion, should -- have taken note and conducted itself in such a way as not to further inflame a geo-political situation that's already inflammatory enough.

But any further judgment must surely be suspended for the time being.

As to your point about the selling of arms to Israel -- and notwithstanding whatever may emerge as a true picture of yesterday's events (assuming, such picture ever does) -- I am now and always have been against this kind of UK trade with Israel, whether it hurts our economy or not: the country which caused the entire Middle East bloody mess -- i.e., us -- has not a scintilla of justification for profiting from that.

mr_fishbulb

97trophy wrote: »

And what are you go to do if these ships are found to have been smuggling weapons?

Smuggling weapons into international waters?

1984ReturnsForReal_2

mr_fishbulb wrote: »

Smuggling weapons into international waters?

:rotfl:

I think the ships' destination is not in question...

jonewer

Though personally, I'm against arms embargos.

If people want to kill each other, we should be free to profit from it.

jonewer

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

:rotfl:

I think the ships' destination is not in question...

Nor is the fact that they were boarded in international waters.

Lance

This convoy with MEP's ect set out to provoke a violent confrontation. It is imo a disgrace that M.P's from EU and USA are boosting their egos by this action. This will not help the people of Palistine, and neither will Hamas or most people in Palestine, it will only make matters worse. As for 'smuggling weapons in international waters' it can still be viewed as a terrorist act by Israel and they will respond whether legal or not under unenforced / unenforceable laws...... the victims of pirates off Somalia are forbidden to carry weapons but very little is done about the pirates. If you go into a warzone to proke a violent reaction you may find quoteing the Geneva Convention not too effective.

jonewer

PhylPho wrote: »

I am now and always have been against this kind of UK trade with Israel, whether it hurts our economy or not: the country which caused the entire Middle East bloody mess -- i.e., us -- has not a scintilla of justification for profiting from that.

I'm sure there were some other people kicking about at the time apart from us......

michaels

I always feel nervous commenting on Israeli actions as I suspect in may be career limiting and I would not under estimate their intelligence gathering ability.

However it is interesting that you mention Somali pirates - please explain how the Israeli actions differ legally from those of the pirates?

Lance wrote: »

This convoy with MEP's ect set out to provoke a violent confrontation. It is imo a disgrace that M.P's from EU and USA are boosting their egos by this action. This will not help the people of Palistine, and neither will Hamas or most people in Palestine, it will only make matters worse. As for 'smuggling weapons in international waters' it can still be viewed as a terrorist act by Israel and they will respond whether legal or not under unenforced / unenforceable laws...... the victims of pirates off Somalia are forbidden to carry weapons but very little is done about the pirates. If you go into a warzone to proke a violent reaction you may find quoteing the Geneva Convention not too effective.

Wookster

vivatifosi wrote: »

What were the Israeli government thinking?

What they normally think I presume: that anything supporting the Palestinian cause presents an existential threat and should be eliminated.

I for one do not buy any Israeli produce.

Anyone defending the Israeli population would do well to realise that some 25% of the population voted for parties to the RIGHT of Likud. These are parties that support the concept of forcibly transferring Arabs out of Israel.

brit1234

michaels wrote: »

I always feel nervous commenting on Israeli actions as I suspect in may be career limiting and I would not under estimate their intelligence gathering ability.

However it is interesting that you mention Somali pirates - please explain how the Israeli actions differ legally from those of the pirates?

Its not Piracy when it is government sanctioned.

"Piracy is a war-like act committed by private parties (not affiliated with any government) that engage in acts of robbery and/or criminal violence at sea. The term can include acts committed in other major bodies of water or on a shore. It does not normally include crimes committed against persons travelling on the same vessel as the perpetrator (e.g. one passenger stealing from others on the same vessel)."wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy

So Israel hasn't commited piracy. As it is international waters the laws of the country the ship bares the flag come into play. Hence why the Turkish are so upset as technically it is an incursion on Turkish ground and seizing Turkish property.

I think Israel legaly would be on better ground if it searched the ship and then left. I don't know what powers they have to seize the ships and passengers.


So for all those Spanish readers, Sir Frances Drake wasn't a pirate

I too feel a little nervous comentating on Israeli issues. However it is best not to think of it as a solid israeli block, every person is different. You get good and bad like in our country. Infact some of the Israeli humanitarian groups and politians I deeply admire especially the late Prime Minster Yitzhak Rabin. He was assinated as he wanted peace with the Palistians. There were also a lot of Jewish Peace protesters on board.