How long for marking of work?

Rosie75

Danstar wrote: »

Which is exactly why the USA is leading for higher education. Because of their Market based, students as customers focus. Students should have the best possible learning environment and support. IMO research should be secondary.

Fees in American universities are around $35,000 per annum. They are just not comparable institutions. And in the high-ranking institutions, tenured academics don't even teach undergraduates - that's mainly done by PhD students.
Reseach, incidentally, brings far more money into British universities than student fees and government subsidies for students combined. It effectively subsidises teaching costs. The kinds of arguments you're making are effectively arguments for increasing student fees.

Danstar_2

MrsManda wrote: »

As in rewrite?
So people who either aren't bright enough to get it right first time or are too lazy/didn't organise their time properly/didn't do their research properly should get the chance to read their feedback and do it again? So you punish those who are bright/organised? University is not school, they should not be babysitting you through your course. If you have a high level job (which people with degrees are generally aiming to get rather than working their way up from the bottom) you are expected to be able to work to deadlines, be given the work and expected to get it done to a high standard first time. The reason a person with a degree is supposed to be able to deal with this is because they've learnt at university.

(If I've misunderstood this comment I apologise).

not do it again just explicitly point out their failings. With some of my essays i have get mainly low 70s but there's always the odd occasion I've got a mid 50 which just knocks the average.

I do attend most my lectures and sit there making notes, unless there's a good reason, my lectures -commuting into Manchester from Harrogate, I do attend all the seminars and do the work before them.

But if a lecture hasn't got it through to a student then it should be explained to them where theve gone wrong. What's the point in students even atteninv universities if not to learn, by putting research above all else then it would only he fathomable for postgrads to go to uni and undergrads do a degree at school. Which is rediculous.

Rosie75 wrote: »

Fees in American universities are around $35,000 per annum. They are just not comparable institutions. And in the high-ranking institutions, tenured academics don't even teach undergraduates - that's mainly done by PhD students.
Reseach, incidentally, brings far more money into British universities than student fees and government subsidies for students combined. It effectively subsidises teaching costs. The kinds of arguments you're making are effectively arguments for increasing student fees.

I'm all for increasing fees. It will mean smaller class sizes, an end to the poly technical universities. Which I don't think should shut down but only give vocational qualifications because they demean th value of degrees from better institutions. An argument of this is less people will be able to attend due to grades etc. Good. University is for the academically bright NOT 50% of the population.

Increasing fees will mean better facilities adding real value to universities. It will mean less people go for "the experience" because who could warrant the cost just for a 3/4 doss. But what it will also mean is greater scholarships and grants to brighter less well off students.

By having less degrees it will also mean that the paygap Between those with and those without a degree widens again thus ensuring a gross gain when looking at fees and earnings.

That said, me no believing in former poly technics as universities, I think the OU is a great idea. Giving those who didn't have the opportunity to go to university or don't have the time do to other commitments a good run to get qualifications.

The_One_Who

Danstar wrote: »

Yes but world leading academics should be focused on research. But in their timetables once thy have published if they should then be teaching for a period of time with devotion to student.

University should be tutored learning on a weekly basis by academic staff rather than pure dictation by the course leader. This will inevitably mean smaller class sizes but that is only a good thing. It would mean students would attend more lectures as absence has probably a great deal to do with lack of involvement and separatation.

Number one excuse for not attending a lecture. "i'll just read the lecture slides" becaus seemingly that's all some lecturers do. Sone lecturers have a real passion for teaching as they want to pass on their knowledge gained through research to students others see lectures as something to get over and done with, never updating their slides yearly.

The best courses, the most involving ones for me, are were there's a small class. We do presentations, get involved in the learning and the tutorial sessions are weekly taken by the course leader and generally speaking they have the beat feedback.

It also helps to build a relationship with the academic staff which makes them seem more approachable when it comes to "office hours".

Most academics do devote time to teaching, often quite a large chunk of their time in fact. There is a lot more to teaching that just turning up. Students are meant to do a few hours work per hour of teaching, and so are lecturers. This is why they are essentially doing two full-time jobs at once.

We obviously have different views on what university teaching should be. I want some guidance and some help if I get confused. Apart from that I'm pretty happy being left to my own devices. It has allowed me to really branch out. But different people learn in different ways. I find tutorials a bit of a waste of time, personally. I get a lot more out of a lecture.

Honestly, if I was a lecturer I would put up slides online, but they would minimal. There would be next to no information on them. It forces students to do their own legwork, either come to the class or go to the library.

You can build a relationship with someone by using the office hours. You don't need to know them beforehand. I found that emailing them prior to the day just to make sure it was okay for me to come and see them was fine.

tinkerbel wrote: »

research that causes lectures to be cancelled and not rearranged is bad. I understand why they have to do research but for what I have got from the academic side of university, I am hugely dissapointed.

That is a fair point, and granted it is annoying. Students should be (and in my experience are) told a week or two before the lecture that it will be cancelled that day or rescheduled.

Danstar wrote: »

But if a lecture hasn't got it through to a student then it should be explained to them where theve gone wrong. What's the point in students even atteninv universities if not to learn, by putting research above all else then it would only he fathomable for postgrads to go to uni and undergrads do a degree at school. Which is rediculous.

I'm all for increasing fees. It will mean smaller class sizes, an end to the poly technical universities. Which I don't think should shut down but only give vocational qualifications because they demean th value of degrees from better institutions. An argument of this is less people will be able to attend due to grades etc. Good. University is for the academically bright NOT 50% of the population.

Increasing fees will mean better facilities adding real value to universities. It will mean less people go for "the experience" because who could warrant the cost just for a 3/4 doss. But what it will also mean is greater scholarships and grants to brighter less well off students.

If a lecture hasn't got through to a student it is the student's responsibility to seek help. The academic isn't going to go around and ask every student if they have understood. Universities provide you with access to literature as well as to the academics, if the student can be bothered looking for the help it is there. Postgraduates are their to learn as well. Yes, PhD students are primarily working on a piece of original research, but they are still students in the process of learning. Depending on the department, they will get even less contact with academics than undergraduates.

I totally agree that 50% is too much, but it would take a few years to change that. It would also require an overhaul of the schooling system. A university is not, and shouldn't be, a graduate factory.

melancholly

having been on both sides, usually there is a minimum of 4 weeks (anything else is impressive!). there is a delay from handing in to getting the right papers in the right order to a marker. that's just a few days of admin - it doesn't take more than half a day to go through everything, but can't always be done immediately. there are then 2/3 weeks to do the marking. if you are giving feedback, then it takes a while to mark each paper and when it's anything over maybe 5, doing it all in one sitting is unbearable! even short lab reports took me half an hour each by the time i'd filled out the feedback.

then they get handed back and there is an admin delay in collating the whole lot together from different markers. then the data gets entered into whatever system is being used. then the lecture series organiser goes through a few to check that the marks are consistent across markers. anyone who scores very highly or very poorly is usually checked. then any changes need to be made (not usually, but possibly), then there needs to be a time to collect essays which is convenient for the office handing them out.

so 2 months is a while, but including easter holidays, not unreasonable - if it goes to 3 months, might be worth getting the issue raised in the next student teaching committee meeting by the student reps (which is always the way to go rather than any individual going to individual lecturers about things like this).

sadly, i found a lot of my feedback was ignored - marking the same students across a year meant that i knew what they had been told before..... however, some students really did take on board what was said and improve.


the careers service or student support usually run general essay writing skills lectures and office hours are appropriate for specific questions. i had them for a full year of marking and saw one student.......i always encourage students to use the resources available. granted, it requires some initiative (although the person, time and place is pre-specified, so not that much), but it is staggering how little students go to them.

melancholly

Danstar wrote: »

I'm all for increasing fees. It will mean smaller class sizes, an end to the poly technical universities. Which I don't think should shut down but only give vocational qualifications because they demean th value of degrees from better institutions. An argument of this is less people will be able to attend due to grades etc. Good. University is for the academically bright NOT 50% of the population.

Increasing fees will mean better facilities adding real value to universities. It will mean less people go for "the experience" because who could warrant the cost just for a 3/4 doss. But what it will also mean is greater scholarships and grants to brighter less well off students.

increasing fees will allow universities to stay solvent when the government funding is reduced. it will not make class sizes smaller or get better facilities - it will make up the cost to the level currently subsidised by the state, which is due to be cut in the next few years.

Barcode

Depending on how much there is to mark, two months is not that unreasonable - but I agree, some feedback should be given.

I aim for a turnaround time of a few weeks. Feedback forms are given explaining the good and bad points, and students can come to my office hour - I'm not terribly sympathetic to people complaining they are struggling when they appear to have made zero effort to help themselves.

I disagree that research should be secondary. Now, granted, you do get academics who seem to resent teaching, but someone who is research orientated and enjoys teaching will generally be more on the ball than someone bogged down in admin. I've been able to employ some of my own research in a teaching environment, and it's helpful to get a fresh perspective sometimes.

The students that fail due to lack of knowledge are rare. Those that fail due to laziness, poor timekeeping, and attempting to write their essays in a day are far more common - when that sort of thing is obvious, it's unclear why I should waste time providing extensive feedback for those that simply cannot be bothered.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Open University - 14 days from the cut off point or the student is encouraged to first contact the tutor and then, if unsatisfactory, complain to the University, who will get in touch with the tutor again.

Comments usually cover a good half of A4 on the cover sheet and, if submitted electronically, will usually have comments, suggestions and specimen answers added throughout. Plus the ability to contact them and ask for further clarification if necessary.

Tutors are rigorously quality controlled throughout the course and their work is further moderated at the end of year by both independent markers and by feedback surveys.

Sometimes the OU has a lot going for it.

marywooyeah

I attend Nottingham Trent University, I handed in a piece of coursework a few days before we broke up for christmas. We finished term on the 30th of april and I am still waiting for the mark.

el_gringo_3

Rosie75 wrote: »

Fees in American universities are around $35,000 per annum. They are just not comparable institutions. And in the high-ranking institutions, tenured academics don't even teach undergraduates - that's mainly done by PhD students.

Not to mention the massive numbers of wealthy foreign students literally fighting for places at U.S universities, thanks to their companies being at the forefront of the Global economy in almost every industry and preferring to recruit to U.S standards.

bestpud

marywooyeah wrote: »

I attend Nottingham Trent University, I handed in a piece of coursework a few days before we broke up for christmas. We finished term on the 30th of april and I am still waiting for the mark.

:eek:...................