Swinton Cancellstion fee

dunstonh

Brize wrote: »

I think we're all in agreement that it's legal; what's up for debate is whether it's fair and reasonable.

The problem with terms and conditions is that there are so many you have to have in place nowadays. The claims culture and overly consumer orientated protections that are now in place means every time a complaint is made and a ruling against the provider takes place, the T&C gets another paragraph added to protect themselves in future.

So, which T&C do you choose to display in the way you want and which do you not?

If you get some information which isshown as high profile, does that mean the consumer can disregard and claim ignorance on the rest?

There is no easy answer to this as the provider has to balance the information supplied.

cjgoodsell

Brize wrote: »

I think I acknowledged as much in my most recent post. Again, why can't the cancellation charge be made explicit at this stage?

It may not be shown at the quote stage but if you scroll to the bottom of their home page and theres a t&c link which is http://www.swinton.co.uk/terms/ so theres no harm having another window open to read that..

Brize

dunstonh wrote: »

There is no easy answer to this as the provider has to balance the information supplied.

There is, I believe, a fairly easy answer. Whether it would be considered commercially viable for a company like Swinton is another matter, though.

I would suggest that there are three salient pieces of information that need to be made explicit to the consumer at point of sale: any significant exclusions or limitations of the plan, that cancellation within the cooling-off period will attract a £50 fee, and that amendments to material facts will also attract a charge.

Given the FSA requirement to provide pre-contractual information in a 'durable medium' and in 'good time' before the conclusion of the contract (see earlier posts), I would suggest that the sales process is temporarily halted while the documents are emailed to the client:

Dear tonyenglish,

Here is your car insurance quote. Please ensure that all material facts are correct (details of endorsements, for example) because subsequent changes will attract a fee. Early termination of your policy will attract a charge of £50, even if cancelled during the 14-day cooling-off period.

You should read the attached documents carefully to familiarise yourself with the benefits, exclusions and limitations of the policy. When you are ready to buy, please click on the following link. You will be asked to confirm your personal details once more and then enter your payment details.

Oscar_The_Grouch

Brize wrote: »

I would suggest that there are three salient pieces of information that need to be made explicit to the consumer at point of sale: any significant exclusions or limitations of the plan, that cancellation within the cooling-off period will attract a £50 fee, and that amendments to material facts will also attract a charge.

Ok; those are the three points you want raised at the point of sale. I want to know about the limitations on EU cover, whether there is any entitlement for driving other cars and details of their complaints procedure. I also want confirmation that the insurer is part of the FSCS protection scheme and whether they are UK or EU based for the purposes of regulation (qv. Quinn Insurance).

I don't care about the cancellation fee; If I cancel the policy then I expect to be charged for it. I also am not worried about changes to material facts as I would make a full disclosure (as required) before accepting the insurance at the agreed price. I've explained above which limitations I'm interested in.

The whole point is that I am not YOU. YOU want something different to what I want. YOU need to read the T&C's to find out the bits that are important to YOU and I need to read them for the bits that are important to ME. That's the whole point of the T&C's - they can't list everything that is important to everyone on the page where you pay, so they list them as a separate document that is compliant with ICOBS 6.

Brize

Oscar_The_Grouch wrote: »

I want to know about the limitations on EU cover...

That's something different. We all approach insurance contracts with a set of pre-formed requirements, and we go looking for the relevant information to ensure that those requirements are met.

The levying of a substantial fee for cancelling the insurance within the cooling-off period is something that, I believe, should be foregrounded by the insurer, not relegated to page 10 of 14 in one of six documents.

There's a reason why the FSA draw particular attention to cancellation rights (including any charges) and stipulate that they be provided in a certain manner. As outlined above, I don't consider that Swinton provided the cancellation rights in a durable medium.

zppp

Brize wrote: »

That's something different. We all approach insurance contracts with a set of pre-formed requirements, and we go looking for the relevant information to ensure that those requirements are met.

The levying of a substantial fee for cancelling the insurance within the cooling-off period is something that, I believe, should be foregrounded by the insurer, not relegated to page 10 of 14 in one of six documents.

There's a reason why the FSA draw particular attention to cancellation rights (including any charges) and stipulate that they be provided in a certain manner. As outlined above, I don't consider that Swinton provided the cancellation rights in a durable medium.

The problem with what you are saying is that Swinton have provided the pre-contract information in a readable medium. A readable medium that can be saved by the user if they so wish. They can choose to put it at page 1001 of their terms and conditions if they want.

Breaking down the definintion of 'durable medium'
'durable' - something that will last, withstand wear and tear etc.
A PDF that has permissions, can be downloaded etc is durable, and can be kept for an indefinite period.

'medium' - format of subject, i.e. photograph, document, snippet etc.
A PDF document, universally available with a free reader which can be downloaded to view, print or store the document.

The page number of the document in which the company chooses to place the cancellation clause bears no relationship to the durability or type of medium of the subject.

dacouch

The £50 cancellation fee in the cooling off period is reason #67 why not to use Swintons for any of your Insurance requirements.

Brize

zppp wrote: »

Breaking down the definintion of 'durable medium'

Just to clarify, it's only the FSA's definition of 'durable medium' that need concern us; a personal interpretation using dictionary definitions is of no relevance.

zppp

Brize wrote: »

Just to clarify, it's only the FSA's definition of 'durable medium' that need concern us; a personal interpretation using dictionary definitions is of no relevance.

Well you are giving your personal interpretation;

Brize wrote: »

The levying of a substantial fee for cancelling the insurance within the cooling-off period is something that, I believe, should be foregrounded by the insurer, not relegated to page 10 of 14 in one of six documents.

There's a reason why the FSA draw particular attention to cancellation rights (including any charges) and stipulate that they be provided in a certain manner. As outlined above, I don't consider that Swinton provided the cancellation rights in a durable medium.

Pot kettle black

Brize

zppp wrote: »

Well you are giving your personal interpretation

Oh dear. The term 'durable medium' is a regulatory construct. The FSA provide a definition, even going so far as to indicate that internet sites are excluded, unless the information is addressed personally to the recipient:

http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/glossary-html/handbook/Glossary/D?definition=G1286