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Calamity of errors - Letting Agent/LL has not provided DPS info
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Jediben
Posts: 16 Forumite
Hi all,
This is my first post on the forum as I've found myself in a bit of a situation.
I began a 12 month tenancy agreement on a 1 bedroom house at the end of April 2007 via a LA that the LL was using. My LL lived on the same road as the rental property so we had a pretty direct contact over any problems I may have encountered during my tenancy. At the time I was not aware of the new Deposit Protection Scheme laws that had come into place, but my 1 1/2 month deposit of £937ish was taken by the LA in cash and a receipt given to me. As the premises has been let as unfurnished, no inventory was ever taken or presented to me. The property is not entirely empty - it has a number of paintings and mirrors on the walls, and of course the condition of the house was never agreed between myself and LA/LL. The garage to the premises would not be included in my TA, but as I did not have a car I did not see a problem.
The initial fixed term expired and I was allowed to stay on as a periodic tenant as confirmed in a letter I received. A small increase in rent of 4% was added to the monthly but I was fine with that. About 3 months into the periodic time, I was advised by my LL that he was changing LA as he was not happy with the service they had provided. Original LA has since ceased trading. The new LA took over in a supervisory role (this property was never fully managed). No new or updated TA was created, no confirmation of inventory or DPS was provided. I had never had an inspection of any sort by the original LA or the LL by this point. I effectively had been living in the house without any interference or contact with the LA or LL for the whole period. Rent was always paid on time.
During this time I contacted my LL to request if my girlfriend could also take up residence in the property. He agreed this with me and from that point on letters from the LA included both my name and my girlfriend's name. No changes to the TA were ever made and so her name does not appear on the TA at all.
In the autumn of 2008 it became apparent that the house was accumulating a lot of moisture around the sliding doors at the back of the property, and mould had begun to grow in the rear corner of the house. We advised the LA and LL as soon as this became apparent. The LL presented us with a dehumidifier, which we ran all day while we were at work. This did not help with the damp, which eventually spread from floor to ceiling at the rear corner, and began working across to the front of the room. To date this damp condition has not been resolved - bleaching it back has kept it in check but no corrective action has been taken.
In January 2010 the LL requested we allow an inspection for Cavity Wall Insulation. We agreed and the inspection went ahead. Due to the damp, the vendor refused to do the work.
At the same sort of time, we requested to the LL that we would like to get 2 kittens. He agreed. No amendments were made to the TA.
In the Winter of 2008, the front porch on the house detatched itself from the house on one side, leading it to slant violently. We advised the landlord the same day, who came round and said he would get an acquaintance to fix it. A few weeks later, we returned home to find the tiles on the porch removed, and stacked in the front garden. This was the last work that would ever take place on the porch - the LL advised that his acquaintance had broken his leg. Since this time, the porch has remained half detatched from the building.
At around the same time, the LL requested that he be allowed to park his work van on the driveway and leave the battery plugged in to the mains of the house to recharge whatever appliances he uses in his work. I agreed, and he offered to reduce the rent by £25 a month which I gratefully accepted. He advised the LA of this but I do not believe I ever received written confirmation of the amendment. No problems were ever encountered in paying slightly less rent (no LA calls etc) after this so I was happy to continue.
On May 18th 2010, we received a letter from the TA advising that the LL wished to move back into the property, and under section 21 we had been given 2 months notice as of 27th May to leave the premises. Accoriding to the LA's letter our last day of residence would be 27th July.
Wasting no time, my girlfriend and I have found a 3 bedroom house which accepts pets for 25% more. We have agreed a move in date with the LA for this new property in late June, and we issued the current LA with our 1 month notice to leave my current residence June 27th.
The LA refused to accept that we could do this, claiming that as my TA had a clause stating that I would give 2 months notice before leaving at either the end of a fixed term tenancy period or a periodic tenancy period, I would be bound by this to pay rent until 27th July.
I am quite sure that common law says I only need to give 1 billing period (ie 1 months) notice at the end of a periodic tenancy. Can anyone confirm this is correct?
Yesterday I received some postal mail addressed to my landlord at my home. I took it up to his house up the road before work and when I came home it had returned.
Confused, I walked up to the house to see if he was home. A lady opened the door. She had moved into the house 3 weeks ago after he has sold the property. The sale proceedings began in January. (Now I know why he tried to get Cavity Wall Insulation done, and it wasn'f for MY benefit!).
The letter of notice was dated May 18th. By the lady's report, she moved in prioer to this date. As I have not been informed of the LL's new address, is this notice valid? Is there any penalty or breach of law for the TA to fail to notify me of the LL's new address?
Also, now that I will be needing my deposit back, I will need to know which Protection Scheme it was paid to. I have not been able to find it on 2 of the 3 schemes, and I have never been supplied with a certificate to prove it was put into this scheme.
If I end up claiming 3x the deposit back for the failure to protect it, who do you reckon will be liable? The LL or the current LA?
Thank you for reading! If anyone can offer any advice please do!
This is my first post on the forum as I've found myself in a bit of a situation.
I began a 12 month tenancy agreement on a 1 bedroom house at the end of April 2007 via a LA that the LL was using. My LL lived on the same road as the rental property so we had a pretty direct contact over any problems I may have encountered during my tenancy. At the time I was not aware of the new Deposit Protection Scheme laws that had come into place, but my 1 1/2 month deposit of £937ish was taken by the LA in cash and a receipt given to me. As the premises has been let as unfurnished, no inventory was ever taken or presented to me. The property is not entirely empty - it has a number of paintings and mirrors on the walls, and of course the condition of the house was never agreed between myself and LA/LL. The garage to the premises would not be included in my TA, but as I did not have a car I did not see a problem.
The initial fixed term expired and I was allowed to stay on as a periodic tenant as confirmed in a letter I received. A small increase in rent of 4% was added to the monthly but I was fine with that. About 3 months into the periodic time, I was advised by my LL that he was changing LA as he was not happy with the service they had provided. Original LA has since ceased trading. The new LA took over in a supervisory role (this property was never fully managed). No new or updated TA was created, no confirmation of inventory or DPS was provided. I had never had an inspection of any sort by the original LA or the LL by this point. I effectively had been living in the house without any interference or contact with the LA or LL for the whole period. Rent was always paid on time.
During this time I contacted my LL to request if my girlfriend could also take up residence in the property. He agreed this with me and from that point on letters from the LA included both my name and my girlfriend's name. No changes to the TA were ever made and so her name does not appear on the TA at all.
In the autumn of 2008 it became apparent that the house was accumulating a lot of moisture around the sliding doors at the back of the property, and mould had begun to grow in the rear corner of the house. We advised the LA and LL as soon as this became apparent. The LL presented us with a dehumidifier, which we ran all day while we were at work. This did not help with the damp, which eventually spread from floor to ceiling at the rear corner, and began working across to the front of the room. To date this damp condition has not been resolved - bleaching it back has kept it in check but no corrective action has been taken.
In January 2010 the LL requested we allow an inspection for Cavity Wall Insulation. We agreed and the inspection went ahead. Due to the damp, the vendor refused to do the work.
At the same sort of time, we requested to the LL that we would like to get 2 kittens. He agreed. No amendments were made to the TA.
In the Winter of 2008, the front porch on the house detatched itself from the house on one side, leading it to slant violently. We advised the landlord the same day, who came round and said he would get an acquaintance to fix it. A few weeks later, we returned home to find the tiles on the porch removed, and stacked in the front garden. This was the last work that would ever take place on the porch - the LL advised that his acquaintance had broken his leg. Since this time, the porch has remained half detatched from the building.
At around the same time, the LL requested that he be allowed to park his work van on the driveway and leave the battery plugged in to the mains of the house to recharge whatever appliances he uses in his work. I agreed, and he offered to reduce the rent by £25 a month which I gratefully accepted. He advised the LA of this but I do not believe I ever received written confirmation of the amendment. No problems were ever encountered in paying slightly less rent (no LA calls etc) after this so I was happy to continue.
On May 18th 2010, we received a letter from the TA advising that the LL wished to move back into the property, and under section 21 we had been given 2 months notice as of 27th May to leave the premises. Accoriding to the LA's letter our last day of residence would be 27th July.
Wasting no time, my girlfriend and I have found a 3 bedroom house which accepts pets for 25% more. We have agreed a move in date with the LA for this new property in late June, and we issued the current LA with our 1 month notice to leave my current residence June 27th.
The LA refused to accept that we could do this, claiming that as my TA had a clause stating that I would give 2 months notice before leaving at either the end of a fixed term tenancy period or a periodic tenancy period, I would be bound by this to pay rent until 27th July.
I am quite sure that common law says I only need to give 1 billing period (ie 1 months) notice at the end of a periodic tenancy. Can anyone confirm this is correct?
Yesterday I received some postal mail addressed to my landlord at my home. I took it up to his house up the road before work and when I came home it had returned.
Confused, I walked up to the house to see if he was home. A lady opened the door. She had moved into the house 3 weeks ago after he has sold the property. The sale proceedings began in January. (Now I know why he tried to get Cavity Wall Insulation done, and it wasn'f for MY benefit!).
The letter of notice was dated May 18th. By the lady's report, she moved in prioer to this date. As I have not been informed of the LL's new address, is this notice valid? Is there any penalty or breach of law for the TA to fail to notify me of the LL's new address?
Also, now that I will be needing my deposit back, I will need to know which Protection Scheme it was paid to. I have not been able to find it on 2 of the 3 schemes, and I have never been supplied with a certificate to prove it was put into this scheme.
If I end up claiming 3x the deposit back for the failure to protect it, who do you reckon will be liable? The LL or the current LA?
Thank you for reading! If anyone can offer any advice please do!
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Comments
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In all circumstances it is the landlord's responsibility to ensure the deposit is protected: an agent is just that, acting for and on behalf of the landlord. The deposit protection regs came in in 2007 but I'm not absolutely certain on exactly what date that was.
In a rolling periodic tenancy the landlord is obliged to give the tenant two months notice and the tenant has to give one coinciding with the rent-due date. It sounds to me like you have given the landlord the appropriate notice, despite what the rental agreement or the agent might say. Even if the LL does not currently live at the address you have for them now correspondence can be sent to the LL c/o the new agents.
The three-times deposit penalty for not protecting it in one of the schemes is not guaranteed so I think you should concentrate on ensuring you get the deposit back in full. Write to the agents requesting the address for your landlord for serving notices,. There is a time-limit for them to comply.0 -
Goodness, what an epic post!
You say "The LA refused to accept that we could do this, claiming that as my TA had a clause stating that I would give 2 months notice before leaving at either the end of a fixed term tenancy period or a periodic tenancy period, I would be bound by this to pay rent until 27th July."
You cannot sign away your legal rights - if you are on a stat periodic tenancy you only have to give one month's notice, but the LL has to give you two, both to tie in with the rent period dates. They had served with a S21 requiring you to be out by July 27th and you have counter-served with effectively a one month notice of your own taking you up to June 27. No problem there ( but see note below re deposit)
You need to first check with the remaining deposit protection scheme whether your deposit was in fact registered.
Am slightly confused by your post but you mention that you were given notice by the LA (on behalf of the LL, even though the LA does not seem to have had responsibility for the management of the tenancy) , so if there is an LA in place it is acceptable for the LL to use the LA's address as an address at which notices etc relating to the tenancy may be served.
If your tenancy deposit should have been scheme registered but was not, then any s21 notice will be invalid until such time as the deposit *is* registered, although tbh it sounds as though you are better off moving to a new property, given the conditions which you seem to have endured during this tenancy.
LAs do not have to be trained, qualified, regulated etc before setting up in business and many of them have a woeful lack of knowledge of LL & T law. Your current LA seems to fall into that category.
As the LL is hoping to move back into the property you are trying to vacate you will have the necessary home address at which to contact him to pursue the return of your deposit. Using the courts to pursue this is not difficult, although enforcement of any judgement may prove trying.
You may want to talk to the TRO (tenancy relations officer) at the local Council's private sector rentals dept - they can help you deal with this LA and LL.
Search back through this forum when you have time, for EagerLearner's monumental thread on tracking down a LL and pursuing the return of a tenancy deposit.0 -
In all circumstances ?- see the report on the High Court case Draycott v Hannells Lettings Ltd (link), point 1.BitterAndTwisted wrote: »In all circumstances it is the landlord's responsibility to ensure the deposit is protected: an agent is just that, acting for and on behalf of the landlord.
6 AprilBitterAndTwisted wrote: »The deposit protection regs came in in 2007 but I'm not absolutely certain on exactly what date that was.
(my highlighting) The relevant date does not always coincide with the rent due date - the notice period must tie in with the rental periodBitterAndTwisted wrote: »In a rolling periodic tenancy the landlord is obliged to give the tenant two months notice and the tenant has to give one coinciding with the rent-due date. It sounds to me like you have given the landlord the appropriate notice, despite what the rental agreement or the agent might say. Even if the LL does not currently live at the address you have for them now correspondence can be sent to the LL c/o the new agents.0 -
I have now confirmed with all 3 of the Protection Schemes either via the web interfaces or with staff on the telephone that there is no record of a deposit in my name at my address for my tenancy period.
As I am going to fulfill all my duties with regard to exit procedures (professional cleaning of the carpets, wash windows and curtains etc...) I wonder whether I should raise this issue officially now or wait until the deposit is being returned?
I appreciate that if I raise it now the LL could attempt to withold it all (as it's unprotected I am now reliant on him having the money to give back I presume) but if I find myself in dispute over any deductions, who do I turn to in a professional capacity please?0 -
who do I turn to in a professional capacity please?
Shelter is excellent:
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold0 -
www.landlordzone.co.uk has many useful and interesting threads about deposits.. worth a read over several weeks..
you cannot dispute a deposit until it has not been returned, and you dont know if it will be returned until after you have left....
did you sign an inventory when you moved in ?0 -
No inventory was ever taken as far as I remember. I may ask the LA for a copy of the inventory tomorrow (I certainly haven't got a copy of it in my possession even if it does exist). The property was let 'unfurnished' in description and effectively the original LA treated it as if it were totally without content, although as I stated previously there are mirrors and paintings in frames in the house and a free standing wardrobe present in the bedroom that was there when I moved in.
We have previously asked the current LA for a copy of the TA but they have not been able to provide one - I don't think they have it since the take over from the first LA. For this reason I also doubt they have a copy of the inventory either.0 -
Had an interesting event this morning: I woke up to find 2 blokes removing the front porch to my house. Thankfully I have taken a day's holiday to extend the long weekend and so my presence at the house was entirely unrelated. I popped outside to ask them what they were doing and to express my suprise that they were here as I hadn't been advised by the LL that any work was happening. I allowed them to finish what they were doing (which was a half !!! job - they took away the porch but left all the tiles still stacked in the garden, so god knows how they are calculating the weight a replacement porch will have to bear) and then immediately called my LA to tell them that the porch was gone and that I had no idea who these men were and ask why they hadn't told me what was happening.
They were as shocked as I was - the LL hadn't told them about it either.
They are due to get back to me later today with the landlord's explanation. They have also confirmed that my notice has been accepted (good, always nice to obey the law) and so I will be out of the house 28th June. They are also going to provide me with a copy of the TA, a copy of the inventory (good luck to them!) and a copy of the DPS certificate (wonder what the date on that will be!) within a week.
Update: Rang the LA about the new address for the LL and it turns out he hasn't told them where he is currently located either. Brilliant.0 -
It is not the correct procedure at all, but where the LL has not protected the deposit and seems to be hiding their whereabouts maybe this is a situation where you would be best not to pay the final month's rent.0
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Afraid I already paid the rent yesterday
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