help for friend..child constantly crying at nursery.. any help or suggestions?

brians_daughter

Hi just had my best mate on the phone (she doesnt have internet at the moment).

Her daughter attends the same childminders as my son. Her DD (18m old) had been attending 8 weeks now, 2 days a week.

First week or 2 she was ok but for past 6 weeks all she has done is cry constantly from the moment she drops her off at 8am until her father collects her at 5pm. She cries even when parents are there and when she is being held.

The childminder has been used by me and others for many years and is highly recommended and my kids and my friends eldest child loved going, but her DD doesnt.

As i say it is constant crying 9 hours a day, her dd will not eat when there as she is crying all the time. This isnt a slur on the childminder as i say, she is great. My friend needs ideas to help her DD settle in, can anyone advise?

She has tried settling her in correctly - ie she went for 5 weeks (2 half days a week) with DD to play and for DD to get used to childminder

She takes things from home, ie favourite teddy and blanket

She has even started to take one of her own coats there and leaving it all day so DD can see mums coat and knows she is coming back(suggestion of health visitor)

Friend really doesnt want to change provider as she thinks this may cause more harm than good and she(mum) is happy and trusts the childminder, as her other kids went there as well until last September when they started school

Theres been no change to routine, home life, not teething, ill etc only the introduction of childminder over last few months - as i say they went for 5 weeks together initially so the dd has known the childminder 4 months now. When not with childminder she is a clingy-ish toddler anyway but this is now getting worse as she expects mum and dad to leave all day when they go out the room

Anyone any advice i can pass on?

mrcow

Well I would ask:

1. Does she cry ALL of the time? Are there certain things that the childminder does when the child doesn't cry?
2. Does the child minder take her anywhere eg. duck pond etc? If so - does she cry there?
3. What about when left with other adults? Eg. aunts, grandparents, friends? Does she cry then?
4. Does she cry often at home? Is she used to throwing her weight about to getting her own way? How do her parents normally handle it when she cries?
5. What's the perceived reson for her crying (if she's not telling them?) is it upset, frustration, is it because she's missing her parents?

Perhaps she just hates it. Perhaps she doesn't feel that she's a part of it all?

Gingham_Ribbon

Are there any other concerns about her? eg is her development 'normal'? Does she cope in other places/with other people without her mum?

I have never known of a child crying for 9 hours a day and I can't imagine how heartbroken I'd be if it was mine.

She's probably a bit little to explain what is so traumatic for her, but pictures and toys may help her explain.

blue_monkey_2

A childminder I know used to look after a child who used to cry all day unless she was being held. The mother had this crackpot idea that all babies should be carried and held to their mother in a sling until the age of 2. And then went back to work 4 days a week when the child was 1. Then she would hold her for 3 days - back to the childminder for 4 days.... and so it went on. The minute she put the child down she would cry. It was exhausting for everyone. The child could not even sit up as she had always been held, and she had no muscle tone at all.

Anyhow, is she used to 1:1 attention and being cuddled all day? The reason she is still crying when the parents come is because she probably cannot stop. Poor thing. Some children just cannot bear being separated from their mums, there are still kids at school that cry when they are left in the morning (y1).

katieclampet

Are you sure the child isn't in pain or unwell? That seems to be an excessive amount of crying and must be really upsetting for child, parents and childminder.

katiex

fernliebee

Only things that spring to mind are:
1) Could the parent's try taking her to the childminders at different times (obv arranged and paid for) just for half an hour, an hour or so, so the little girl knows that sometimes she isn't going to miss them all day. Then once she realises they are def coming back, and it could be in 10 mins or 9 hours, then slowly extend sessions until she is happy going full day. It would cost more for a while but long term may make everyone feel more comfortable.

2) Are there any activities that little girl especially loves that could be done as a treat to help her settle.

3) You say her elder siblings went to same childminder until Sept, is there anyway they could all attend together say on an inset day or bank holiday etc, so little girl see's how much the older ones love it.

4) What about making a photo diary of little girl and childminder together for parents to read to little girl at home to help her get used to seeing the childminder but in her own home to get her more comfortable.

5) Can the parents play lot's of games of peepo, hiding objects then finding them, and running out of a room then running back and saying boo! All these games help children understand the concept that something goes and then comes back.

Hope they get it sorted asap. It must be horrible for all involved.

Rockporkchop

I know that separation anxiety is extremely common at around 18 months - my three were nightmares and screamed whenever I left the room.

But this does sound very extreme and has been going on for a fairly long time so I am wondering whether the LO might have separation anxiety disorder, which is really debilitating, should be taken seriously and might require some help. Might be worth seeing the GP with her.

Or, maybe she just hates going to the childminders? One way your friend could find out is to book a trial session at a nursery and see if her DD is any better there. I know you said your friend didn't want to move her as she is happy with the childminder, but if it is causing so much angst to her DD then I don't see that she has any choice but to move her.

These are probably much too old for her if she is only 18 months, but if she is quite bright for her age and enjoys being read to, I can recommend: Kissing Hand by Audrey Penn, I Love You All Day Long by Francesca Rusackas or the Goodbye Book by Judith Viorst. All such lovely books about being left in childcare for the day.

pandora205

Separation anxiety is very common at this age but to cry all day for extended periods is extremely rare. A couple of things spring to mind - is she still breast fed, or was she demand fed until attending? Stopping can sometimes be difficult if a child has been used to this since birth?

Is this the first time she has been left with anyone apart from parents? It is a big step for many and some children don't cope well. A usual beginning would be short periods of separation being gradually increased but a pattern has now been set that may be difficult to break.

Some children are timid and anxious is many ways. Is this child like this? In which case, it may be a case of finding somewhere else where she feels happier. My second child showed distress for three days (whole sessions) when he started preschool. I was not permitted to stay at first (not their policy) but after the second session they asked me to. I wasn't particularly impressed with the activities on offer and withdrew him after spending an afternoon there. A few weeks later I visited a nursery run by a friend of mine and he loved it...... There was so much space, outdoor activities, children were encouraged to do their own thing (make dens, get messy, invent games) and we never looked back.

18 months is a difficult age for separation (in fact 9-18mths + is) However, I wouldn't carry on with a placement where my child was so obviously distressed for extended periods. 8-5pm is a very long day for a child this age.... And a 5 day gap between sessions means that she probably doesn't get into a pattern. Could parents change their working hours to do half days? Could they take some time off to stay with the child for a while (say the first hour), checking she is playing and that the activities are suitable and that she is settled?

foxy-roxy

It is rare but as a nursery nurse this has happened, unfortunatley some children just don't settle at all and can make themselves quite ill, on the other hand some will get used to it, but as she has been going for 8 weeks I think it looks doubtful.
The times when I have known children to be this upset at our nursery the parents either took them out or the nursery asked them to leave as it is not good for the child and other children.

Has your friend tried a nursery? There is more staff and more children / toys that may distract her a bit better?

brians_daughter

Hi all, thank you for all the replies....I have my friend here with me this morning, so in answer to all the questions (really apreciated by the way)

They are booking some time ie late starts early finishes to try and help her settle in. I am heartbroken for them, and i am only the godmother! thanks for any comments, andy questions that have been asked have been answered below

1. Does she cry ALL of the time? Are there certain things that the childminder does when the child doesn't cry? YES, ALL DAY if in the house. The only time she doesnt cry is when out of the house. The childminder had started to take the children out of the house when friends daughter was there but as the childminder has 3 kids under 3 she will not go out without support from her part time childminder.

2. Does the child minder take her anywhere eg. duck pond etc? If so - does she cry there?
see above

3. What about when left with other adults? Eg. aunts, grandparents, friends? Does she cry then?
when she is left with me (godmother) she is whingey, same with grandparents etc but settles within 10 mins

4. Does she cry often at home? Is she used to throwing her weight about to getting her own way? How do her parents normally handle it when she cries?
Hum, well parents and me defo no, but nanny and grandpa do give in easily - but they are only in charge of the child on a sunday afternoon for a few hours
5. What's the perceived reson for her crying (if she's not telling them?) is it upset, frustration, is it because she's missing her parents?
Missing parents. She will play happily at the childminders when parents or me is around. ie if she is collected at 4pm but parents stay chatting til 5pm child will go of and play with other kids for that 1 hr whilst parents or me is there

Are there any other concerns about her? eg is her development 'normal'? Does she cope in other places/with other people without her mum?
She is extremely bright and i think this may be part of it, in a funny kind of way. she understands everything you say to her. ie today i said to her mum what time are you taking her to x (childminders name) child started crying. She can communicate very very well for her age and can say many words. All she says in 'no no go. Mummy dadddy me' when they drop her at childminders. She is fine when with me or grandparents, she does cry but settles quickly


Are you sure the child isn't in pain or unwell? That seems to be an excessive amount of crying and must be really upsetting for child, parents and childminder.
Child deffo not ill. too muchb coincidence same 2 days a week for 55 weeks, child setles when parents turn up so i cant see it being illness

Only things that spring to mind are:
1) Could the parent's try taking her to the childminders at different times (obv arranged and paid for) just for half an hour, an hour or so, so the little girl knows that sometimes she isn't going to miss them all day. Then once she realises they are def coming back, and it could be in 10 mins or 9 hours, then slowly extend sessions until she is happy going full day. It would cost more for a while but long term may make everyone feel more comfortable. We are trying this next week and week after. mum and dad cant get that level of time off so they are having to sploit it between them and me. great idea thanks

2) Are there any activities that little girl especially loves that could be done as a treat to help her settle. She will not settle to do anything, she simpoly cries. If childminder is holding her her cry is more of a whine but when she puts her down she is hysterical

3) You say her elder siblings went to same childminder until Sept, is there anyway they could all attend together say on an inset day or bank holiday etc, so little girl see's how much the older ones love it. great idea, we will deffo try this 0 its half term next week

4) What about making a photo diary of little girl and childminder together for parents to read to little girl at home to help her get used to seeing the childminder but in her own home to get her more comfortable. they do this anyway as part of the childminders diary - but will get them to focus more at home on it

5) Can the parents play lot's of games of peepo, hiding objects then finding them, and running out of a room then running back and saying boo! All these games help children understand the concept that something goes and then comes back. Never even thought of this! great


Or, maybe she just hates going to the childminders? One way your friend could find out is to book a trial session at a nursery and see if her DD is any better there. I know you said your friend didn't want to move her as she is happy with the childminder, but if it is causing so much angst to her DD then I don't see that she has any choice but to move her.
They are looking into this one, seems sensible
These are probably much too old for her if she is only 18 months, but if she is quite bright for her age and enjoys being read to, I can recommend: Kissing Hand by Audrey Penn, I Love You All Day Long by Francesca Rusackas or the Goodbye Book by Judith Viorst. All such lovely books about being left in childcare for the day. Great, she is bright so we will try anything

Gingham_Ribbon

brians_daughter wrote: »

Are there any other concerns about her? eg is her development 'normal'? Does she cope in other places/with other people without her mum?
She is extremely bright and i think this may be part of it, in a funny kind of way. she understands everything you say to her. ie today i said to her mum what time are you taking her to x (childminders name) child started crying. She can communicate very very well for her age and can say many words. All she says in 'no no go. Mummy dadddy me' when they drop her at childminders. She is fine when with me or grandparents, she does cry but settles quickly

Okay, I have a suggestion. My eldest understood everything that was going on at that age. What he didn't have was experience to contextualise everything. That can be terrifying for an adult never mind a toddler.

So, maybe she understands that sometimes people go away and don't come back and she could be afraid that she will be left there permanently? Being out of the house doing more interesting things will probably distract her more. She wants 'mummy daddy me' and who can blame her! That's her safe zone, like for most children. My son was terrified I'd die when we were apart because he understood it FAR too young but had no experience or context to understand that PROBABLY that wouldn't happen. He understood about meteors but had no concept of space or time and became terrified that one would land on the house or something precious to him.

Have a look at this questionnaire and if you think it's ringing bells, have a word with the helpline (the number is at the top of the page). They'll have some sound suggestions on how to deal with this IF the problem is giftedness.