bank error money received (£2700). now they want it back!? advise

volcom883

hi,
in december 2009 my father has sent me 2700 pounds via bank transfer. 3 weeks later i received another payment for 2700.
i thought my father had made a mistake and had sent me the money twice or that a bank error had occurred.

however, a few days ago my father has received a letter from national westminster bank stating that the payment he sent was duplicated due to a banking error.
they also ask for my contact details.

the thing is that i have spent all that "free" money!

-am i legally obliged to refund it?
-can my bank(s) take money off of my accounts without authorisation and refund them?

thank you

7sefton

Hmm. I question your honesty when you say you spent the 'free' money. Why didn't you tell your dad that he appeared to have made a mistake in the first place?

As far as I know, it is illegal to spend money you know you are not the owner of or are entitled to. This is theft. How you prove you thought you were entitled to the money is another matter, of course.

However, I imagine if YOUR bank is a different banking group from your DAD'S bank then they wouldn't just be able to take the money off you without going to court. In fact, because the letter is addressed to your dad, it seems that NatWest see him as the way to recover their funds.

There have been numerous threads about issues like this in the past - do a search. Or else wait for someone more knowledgeable than me to come along!

ceh209

volcom883 wrote: »

the thing is that i have spent all that "free" money!

Seriously, you actually thought that the bank had GIVEN you some money, and you could now go and spend £2700?? :rotfl:

Olipro

the short and sweet answer is yes, you are legally obliged to pay back the money.

the longer answer is dependent on if the transfer was made from within the same bank or not.

if it was a different bank then they will have to take you to court, however, considering the amount, it's highly likely they will.

mackemdave

volcom883 wrote: »

hi,
in december 2009 my father has sent me 2700 pounds via bank transfer. 3 weeks later i received another payment for 2700.
i thought my father had made a mistake and had sent me the money twice or that a bank error had occurred.

however, a few days ago my father has received a letter from national westminster bank stating that the payment he sent was duplicated due to a banking error.
they also ask for my contact details.

the thing is that i have spent all that "free" money!

-am i legally obliged to refund it?
-can my bank(s) take money off of my accounts without authorisation and refund them?

thank you

This must be a wind up.....Fairly new user....

preable

Hi

Today i checked my online banking and there was a payment made to my accout for £122 all it says is bank credit. im not expecting a payment or anything just showed up out if the blue. What should i do just leave it and wait or contact my bank??

Never happend to me before.

volcom883

on both payments there was my father's name and the money came from a different bank.

back then for a minute i thought it was a bank error but then when i thought again i told myself that an error was impossible with nowadays technology and accepted the idea that my father had made a mistake.

by the way, if my father rang them he wouldnt be able to get any more info about what told natwest or what i am or how i am going to pay it, would he?


also, according to the following article if i genuinely though that the money was mine i could keep it. thats what i understand from it anyway, isnt it?

financial-ombudsman.org.uk :
banking - mistaken credits

There is a kind of mistake that can make some customers happy. That is where the firm mistakenly credits a customer’s account with money that the customer is not entitled to. Some customers feel they should be allowed to keep the money, simply because the firm has made a mistake.

Similar issues arise where the firm mistakenly understates how much a customer owes on a mortgage or other loan. Sometimes the customer then considers that the firm must accept the figure it has mistakenly quoted, rather than the higher – true – figure.

What is the fair outcome to such cases?
In particular:

Does the customer have to repay the money?
If so, on what terms?
Is any compensation due?

In dealing with such cases and deciding what is fair and reasonable, we are required to take into account what the law says. In general terms, the legal position is:

Ordinarily, customers should repay money that does not belong to them, or that they have borrowed.

But customers do not have to repay it if they have ‘changed their position’ through believing, in good faith, that the money was theirs – for example, by buying some expensive service that they would not otherwise have bought. Merely spending the money on ordinary, day-to-day expenditure does not amount to a change of position.

If customers have changed their position, then they are not required to show that, if they repaid the money, they would be worse off than before they received it. But it must still be the case that it would be unfair for the customer to have to repay the money.

As long as the firm’s mistake has caused the change of position, it does not matter if the firm did not expressly represent to the customer that the money belonged to the customer.

Clearly, customers must pay money back if they did not genuinely believe it was theirs. But sometimes, even though they accept that they must repay the money, they are unhappy about how the firm treated them or their account.

KarenBB

I'm thinking because of this line that you've posted that you should be able to keep the money "But customers do not have to repay it if they have ‘changed their position’ through believing, in good faith, that the money was theirs" But as you've stated "back then for a minute i thought it was a bank error but then when i thought again i told myself that an error was impossible with nowadays technology and accepted the idea that my father had made a mistake."

So what you're saying is first you thought it was a bank error but decided it must be your father's error - and thinking this went ahead and spent the money that you thought your dad had given you by mistake. So you didn't believe in good faith that the money was yours so I don't see how this stands up as defence not to pay it back.

preable

KarenBB wrote: »

I'm thinking because of this line that you've posted that you should be able to keep the money "But customers do not have to repay it if they have ‘changed their position’ through believing, in good faith, that the money was theirs" But as you've stated "back then for a minute i thought it was a bank error but then when i thought again i told myself that an error was impossible with nowadays technology and accepted the idea that my father had made a mistake."

So what you're saying is first you thought it was a bank error but decided it must be your father's error - and thinking this went ahead and spent the money that you thought your dad had given you by mistake. So you didn't believe in good faith that the money was yours so I don't see how this stands up as defence not to pay it back.

Anyone with good morals would have told the dad what happend as its his money and if it was his to give him the money back, Christ he lent you £2700 and you decided to spend the other money without even checking. Wow shows how some people only care about money.

scottishblondie

Are you actually being serious? The money wasn't yours, and you clearly knew that. Bad enough if it was a bank error or someone sent money to your account by mistake, even worse if you thought your Dad had made a mistake and you happily spent his money. I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

talana

Yes, you have to repay it.
So do yourself a favour, contact Natwest, acknowledge the extra payment and agree an arrangement to repay..before this escalates any further.

You convinced yourself that your father had made a mistake, yet were still happy to keep it. That's the bit I'm shaking my head in disbelief at..... if it was your father's mistake it's OK to do him out of £2700 is it?