Theft -do we tell insurer?

pokey128

Hi
We were broken into yesterday and had some valuables stolen (the door was kicked in).
The problem is that I had only locked the door with the yale lock (just pulling it shut) and didn't use the bottom mortice one cause I was only going out for a couple of hours. Does this mean we can't claim on insurance and if so should we even tell them if we weren't covered anyway?

I don't want to commit fraud by witholding the info but don't want to tell them something they don't need to know that will predujice us in the future.

Cheers
Kirstin

mattymoo

If the policy has a security condition* requiring 5 lever mortice deadlocks to be in use when the property is vacant then the claim will be declined.

Before you decide what to do though, double check the Yale lock (rim lock) to make sure it is not stamped with the British Standard 3621 kite mark. This web page shows the only 3 models (by Chubb and Yale) that are stamped to BS3621.
http://www.safelocks.co.uk/acatalog/BS3621_nightlatch.html
There is another one by Ingersol but this is a rarity these days.

* Your policy schedule will show you whether or not the condition applies. The policy booklet will show the security condition in full.

pokey128

Hi,
Thanks for that- the policy does state that if the home is left unoccupied then all available locks on all doors must be used.

I have checked the yale lock and it doesn't have a stamp on it at all -it is acutally by union?
What difference would that make?
Thanks

mattymoo

Some security conditions specify the type of locks to be used and will normally ask for BS:3621 kite marked locks. Your security condition only asks for all available locks to be used without saying what standard they must be.

Strictly speaking you haven't complied with the security condition. Had the mortice lock been used as well you would expect to see a bent lock bolt and a shattered timber frame. A loss adjuster would pick up on this.

If the mortice lock is not BS:3621 compliant then I would argue the thieves would still have got in irrespective of the number of locks. A 3621 compliant lock should withstand 2 tonnes of lateral force before failing. Normally the door or frame timbers fail first though.

How big is the loss in £ note terms? What policy excess do you have? Who are you insured with and do you have a broker?

pokey128

Its with paymentshield through click and the total loss is about £750 with a £150 excess
There is definitely no BS mark on the lock and I think the theives would have got in anyway from the way the door has been damaged but clearly we didn't lock it (and I have told the police this) and so the insurers would be entitled to decline.

What I really want to know if whether to tell the insurers anything at all -if they would just decline it anyway because we haven't complied with the security condition? It is a joint building and contents policy so I don't want to void the buildings by not telling them about this if that makes sense

Thanks so much for your help!

pokey128

Hi
Sorry to bump this but can anyone help?
Cheers

Bunter_2

pokey128 wrote: »

Hi
We were broken into yesterday and had some valuables stolen (the door was kicked in).

The problem is that I had only locked the door with the yale lock (just pulling it shut) and didn't use the bottom mortice one cause I was only going out for a couple of hours.Does this mean we can't claim on insurance.

and if so should we even tell them if we weren't covered anyway?

Depends on the wording of your policy. On my policy it says that I am required to inform them "Of anything that has happened which might give rise to a claim."

I don't want to commit fraud by witholding the info but don't want to tell them something they don't need to know that will predujice us in the future.

There is a basic contradiction here; the insurers do need to know of any thing that has happened that may change their assessment of the risk they are insuring.

If you do inform them (as you are probably required to do) then it may be "prejudicial in the future", as you put it, insofar as you will be seen as a bigger risk and hence premiums may rise. On the other hand if you do not inform them, and they find out, then your insurance may be voided. Given that the matter has been logged as a police incident this could be a risky tack to take.

I myself only have a yale lock but my insurance company know this. Through coming on this forum I have learned that it is much safer to be upfront with your insurers, as they will use any failure to disclose to void your policy and avoid paying out on claims.

property.advert

Personally, if you have informed the police then I think you have to tell them but word it carefully. Get help if you need to, even before phoning them as it will be recorded.

If you have not informed the police, then I may well not tell them at all, if I made good the repair myself to a high standard which would not compromise the security of the property.

I must admit I don't understand the "didn't use the bottom mortice one cause I was only going out for a couple of hours" comment. Surely it takes about 3 seconds to lock the other lock ?

Years ago I made a successful claim after they argued they would not pay out and the terminology I used was similar to this: Given that the door was locked (they were disputing whether force had been used or not), force or craft must have been used to gain entry as the keys etc. were with me. Now I didn't categorically say force had been used or that someone else had a key to the lock, but I implied that such must have been used to gain entry when I had what I thought was the only key with me.

You may well find that your mortice lock is a very common variety. A locksmith or key cutter should be able to tell you. Just show them your key. I have heard that some thieves carry around copies of some of the most common keys, particularly on housing estates where many of the same locks are used.

pokey128

Well, an update on my case for you!
After the advice on here I decided to tell the insurers to be on the safe side. They could not have been more helpful.
I told them that we had been robbed and that I wasn't sure whether we could claim because we didn't lock the bottom lock but wanted to tell them anyway. They were so great and arranged for someone to come and sort the door straight away and took a note of everything taken.
I was sure when the man came to fix the door that that would be the end of it cause he took pictures etc of the locks (we were covered for the initial visit under home emergency which i didn't even realise we had!).
A week later I had a call from the insurers saying that they had the report in from the door people and had authorised them to replace it and that because the claim was bigger than they could authorise over the phone they were going to send a loss adjuster round.
He came and asked me a few questions and took photos of boxes and/or instruction manuals and said he would email me the following day. Lo and behold I got an email with a settlement figure so much bigger than I expected (some of the things he valued were miles higher than I had paid or had found online subsequently) and a cheque arrived 2 days later.

Could not fault this service at all! Obviously our premiums have now gone up a bit but the value of the claim makes that worth it.

Steve1981

wow a nice story for a change - who were you with, sounds like they deserve some credit for the quick resolution of this, particulary as many would have dragged their feet or simply refused to payout full stop

pokey128

We are with Paymentshield who I have heard both bad and good things about. I think they are a little more expensive than some but I've been so very impressed with them and how they have handled the claim.