MSE News: Winter benefits face cuts in welfare shake-up

Plushchris

Eco_Miser wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, all income goes into one pot, and is spent as needed. So long as the pensioners spend the amount of the allowance on fuel, they have spent the allowance on fuel, even if they fuel payments were spread over the year, and they happened to spend £250 on Christmas just after they received the allowance.

As for moaning about the cost of fuel, why shouldn't they? It's expensive enough.

Thats fine, I was talking about the ones that spend it on christmas presents/winter holiday etc. Stuff that isnt "needed" as much as heating.

They then complain about not being able to meet the payments on their fuel bills having spent the money intended for fuel on other things..

I'm not against the payments and dont think they should be cut, but they shouold certainly be overhauled in a way that makes the money given to be spent on what its intended for.

The easiest way to do this would be give anyone entitled vouchers for redemption on fuel as opposed to cash.

davidgmmafan

"The easiest way to do this would be give anyone entitled vouchers for redemption on fuel as opposed to cash."

Or make the payments directly to the fuel account as they did with the £80 payment others have mentioned.

Plushchris

davidgmmafan wrote: »

Or make the payments directly to the fuel account as they did with the £80 payment others have mentioned.

Thats would be ok but that puts it directly in the hands of energy companies which are angels when it comes to treating people fairly arent they?

At least still giving it to the individual gives them the chance to shop around and get onto the cheapest tariff etc.

Its like the joke "social tariffs" the energy companies introduced, look good as they give you money off*



*money off the standard rate which may be up to 20-25% more than their cheapest..

lu_lu_2

Having read all of the post many of them disgust me.

Most posters are obviously 20/30 somethings who are completely selfish & self centered & don't have elderly parents or grandparents.

Many of the elderly were employed in low paid jobs - salaries then were not what they are now & few people were able/could afford to join pension schemes - if they existed.

My father, who is now 85, joined the RAF in the 2WW but thankfully never saw active service. If he had my brother & I would probably not be alive. When the RAF decided they didn't need him he was sent down "the pits" digging coal.

He has since worked full time continuously for over 45 yrs.

When my brother & I were children money was tight although my father was considered to have quite a good job. It was normal for all kids to have the elbows of their jumpers darned & the collars & cuffs of their school clothes "turned". Do any of you know how to do this? I do - it was one of my school holiday jobs.

You begrudge pensioners the winter fuel payment but they received no benefits during their working lives except "Child Allowance" - payable for the second child until the first left school. It was worth 8 shillings per week (40P) & my mother clothed my brother & I out of this. School uniform, which was compulsory, could only be bought from "authorised" expensive shops. Supermarkets as we know now them did not exist. Whilst my parents were glad that I passed for the Grammar School they were unable to purchase all of the required clothing & my Dad's sister (no children) contributed to the cost - much to their embarassment.

Many have said about pensioners living in large properties & that they "should be moved out" Do these people have any idea of the distress & disorientation that this would cause? The house is probably where their kids grew up & is where all their memories are. If it has become unsuitable why haven't "the kids" helped them to relocate to more suitable premises at an age when they could cope with it. Oh yes I know the answer - they are far too busy enjoying themselves!

What little money my father has (Mum died in 2003) was saved penny by penny & he won't spend it because you don't know what next year will bring!

You all want everything NOW when you have yet to contribute into the system. When you have contributed for 40 yrs then you can complain about pensioners winter fuel payments.

The_Economist

Looks like these lot are singing from the same song sheet as the last lot.
Title of song,
I'M ALL RIGHT JACK.

Bollotom

dmg24 wrote: »

How many sixty year olds fall into this category, considering that the great majority of them will still be working full time?

Oh? Majority? How many? I would suggest you possible also look forward to retiring at 70. Why not bring in mass euthenasia for over sixties? Obviously a fisher of men:A

FATBALLZ

lu_lu wrote: »

..ill informed hysterical rant..

No doubt in 50 years when I am claiming my pension (assuming the retirement age isn't put back even further for my generation from 70), there will still be people like you who use the old "back in my day" argument as a basis to demand excessive resources from the taxpayer to live a lifestyle beyond their means.

In 50 years time it will be more along the lines of "today's pensioners lived in fear of cancer as there was no cure in their day, they had to drive for an hour to get to work as there were no teleporters or hovercars to avoid the traffic, many watched their friends die in iraq as there was no world peace... blah blah blah".

Quite simply, if you want a comfortable secure retirement - plan it for yourself. Don't plan your final years in a house with huge running costs if you don't have the means to fund it. In a few decades time it will become apparent that today's pensioners are living in a golden age - future generations won't have the huge HPI gains and generous employer pensions to fall back on, and will most likely be working well past their 70th birthday. So don't get greedy.

lu_lu_2

FATBALLZ

My post was NOT an ilinformed hysterical rant. I am a great deal older, wiser & more considerate/thoughtful person than you will ever be.

You are precisely the type of person who makes my blood boil. You want everything NOW when you haven't even contributed into "the system". You will no doubt ensure that you claim every possible benefit you can when you have kids taking out of the system money that you haven't even paid in.

I am SO glad that you intend making adequate provision for your old age so that you are not a "drain on society". That is what my parents & their generation did but unfortunately inflation & the low interest rates on savings are making life difficult for many.

Grow up.

Cardew

Inevitably, when pensioners are brought into the discussion, matters get heated. Any reasoned argument against WFA type payments is construed as an attack on pensioners.

Surely the discussion is about giving an untaxed payment to all households with someone aged 60 or over.(who are not necessarily pensioners), regardless of their financial circumstances. In any case for most people the £250/£400 is simply part of the household income; not put aside for heating.

Means testing, we are told, would cost more to administer than it would save. Although even without means testing there must be considerable administration costs.

Personally I question the rationale to award WFA at age 60, and would prefer to see it withdrawn and the £2.7billion put toward enhancing pensions.

FATBALLZ

lu_lu wrote: »

FATBALLZ

My post was NOT an ilinformed hysterical rant. I am a great deal older, wiser & more considerate/thoughtful person than you will ever be.

You are precisely the type of person who makes my blood boil. You want everything NOW when you haven't even contributed into "the system". You will no doubt ensure that you claim every possible benefit you can when you have kids taking out of the system money that you haven't even paid in.

I am SO glad that you intend making adequate provision for your old age so that you are not a "drain on society". That is what my parents & their generation did but unfortunately inflation & the low interest rates on savings are making life difficult for many.

Grow up.

Grow up? So if I make up a load of old crap like you keep doing would that be more grown up? I pay a good £1k in direct taxes alone a month so I'm not quite sure where you get this idea that I haven't paid anything in. In fact I'd bet a large amount of money I've already paid in more than some of these supposedly maligned pensioners have done in their whole working lives.

It seems to be the first line of defence against the young to claim they are the 'want it now' generation. Some of the wrinklies who come out with this line need to look in the mirror if they want to realise who the real 'want it now' generation is. The 'I want £200k profit on the house I bought for £30k' generation. The 'I want 2/3 final salary pension without making any contributions' generation. The 'I want tax cuts rather than pay for free futher education that I benefited from myself for the next generation', generation.

And I already have a child - I get £1k a year child benefit like anyone else in the same position but nothing else - not much in the context of the £30k or so my family puts into the government pot each year to be honest, yet my stance is that child benefit should be scrapped. It isn't the governments role to subsidise peoples lifestyle choices. That goes for having children, and it also goes for living in expensive to run properties without the income to support them.