MSE News: Winter benefits face cuts in welfare shake-up

Paulgonnabedebtfree

KimYeovil wrote: »

But the elderly are already entitled to twice the income of those who are younger - they don't actually need the payment. What, other than heating, is their extra income for?

If you want to maintain a universal Winter Fuel Payment the solution is simple - reduce the guaranteed pension credit by £2 per week and delay the WFP for a couple of years.

And the disabled don't need extra either - if they are so disabled that they are housebound they receive extra - if they are not that disabled then they can use libraries and job centres and shopping malls for warmth just like other unemployed people.

Ever tried claiming DLA?
I once knew a guy who had two legs amputated (diabetes) and they still turned him down.
Roll along to the library to keep warm sir!!

KimYeovil

Paulgonnabedebtfree wrote: »

Ever tried claiming DLA?
I once knew a guy who had two legs amputated (diabetes) and they still turned him down.
Roll along to the library to keep warm sir!!

Is that not half the point I am making in the first place? Do pay attention, sir.

FATBALLZ

beecher2 wrote: »

Let's see what your heating bill is when you're elderly, housebound and feeling the cold more than you used to but are unable to move around as much as before. You aren't comparing like with like.

I do believe there should be some sort of means testing - perhaps only those who receive cold weather payments should get it? I do think those who are suffering from cancer should receive it - they need it far more than the 60 year olds who are still working (and commuting in using their bus passes)

My flat is more or less at a minimum of 20 degrees celcius all year round. My heating/gas bill is less than £200 for the whole year. If old people choose to live in drafty old houses far too big and expensive for their needs they should live with the consequences of their choice. But consequences went out of fashion during the previous government.

BLT_2

carolinerunner wrote: »

It seems to me there will soon be lots more people aged 60 - 65 out of work and hard up onbenefits, living in bigger homes than they can now afford but unable to trade down because of the housing market being in the doldrums. They might find it hard to keep their homes heated all day. Maybe they are meant to keep warm in libraries? Although I expect they will all be shut down soon, or we'll have to pay to use them or staff them ourselves. I know what the idea is, cut government spending, I just don't see how people who are already hard up will manage without all the things that seem to be being taken away. Or am I missing something?

And the purpose of benefits is to enable pensioners with large homes to keep their heating on all day? Strangely enough I thought the purpose of benefits were to support the needy, not to subsidise heating bills for pensioners with 300k houses :rotfl:

Cardew

If there is an argument that people don't need WFA, then surely the same argument applies to the State retirement pension for those with an adequate occupational pension.

The valid argument is that most pensioners have paid taxes(including NI) all their working lives and the State pension is their entitlement - so does this not apply to WFA? Where does the concept of 'means testing' begin and end?

The original justification of WFA was that pensioners feel the cold more than younger people and spend more time at home than those at work.

Plushchris

Cardew wrote: »

The original justification of WFA was that pensioners feel the cold more than younger people and spend more time at home than those at work.

and women tend to feel the cold more than men, so maybe it should only be old women that get the payment?

[Deleted User]

st999 wrote: »

What about the pensioners who have moved to the sun for the winter so they don't need to heat their house?

They still get the heating allowance.

Why should they get it when they don't even spend any money on heating?

And I know someone who does that as I keep an eye on their house while they are away and all I get is a bottle of vodka.

I used to get just a bottle of wine and they got their 250 in sunny spain

shegar

Oneday77 wrote: »

Rather than give people the money. Why doesn't the Goverment clamp down on energy companies that bought the utilities for a song. Make them give relevant discounts to people who require the extra energy. They will still make a profit but less money needs to enter the pot to stay warm.

Also there should be caps on the mark up on Energy prices to benefit everyone, prevent last years high prices when cold and reduce when warm.

Yep id go along with that ..:T

lilac_lady

Andy_WSM wrote: »

Cut it for those that don't need it. - Means test the payments. Plenty of OAPs need the money for Winter fuel, but plenty of others squander it on the Christmas booze.

Well, that's one way to keep warm!

Eco_Miser

Plushchris wrote: »

I know of a fair few OAPs that use their "winter fuel allowance" to fund Christmas, their winter holiday or anything else they need to spend their money on other than fuel (and then moan about the cost of fuel)

I'm not saying I agree with the cuts but I just dont agree with how these payments are made in the first place as I'd bet a fair share of these payments do not get spent on the fuel they are meant for.

As far as I'm concerned, all income goes into one pot, and is spent as needed. So long as the pensioners spend the amount of the allowance on fuel, they have spent the allowance on fuel, even if they fuel payments were spread over the year, and they happened to spend £250 on Christmas just after they received the allowance.

As for moaning about the cost of fuel, why shouldn't they? It's expensive enough.