Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) issues and comments

neilmcl

cepheus wrote: »

The car/light goods vehicle MOT test is about to change – the European
Commission has changed the Directive that covers it. We take a look at
when these changes are likely to come into effect and what they mean
for MOT testers.

Britain has been testing vehicles under the MOT scheme for 50 years now. Last year, the European Directive covering the MOT test was updated and revised by a
modern version called 2009/40/ EC. This was then updated by 2010/48/EU, which was ratified on 5 July this year.

See Directive 2010/48/EU

In which way does this this regulation only apply to new vehicles?

4. MINIMUM INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS The inspection shall cover at least the items and use the minimum standards and methods listed below. Reasons for failure are examples of defects that may be detected.....

8.2.2. Diesel engine emissions 8.2.2.1. Exhaust emission control equipment Visual inspection (a) Emission control equipment fitted by the manufacturer absent or obviously defective

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:173:0047:0072:EN:PDF

It's a directive, it's not a regulation. These are completely different things and are handled entirely differently.

I'm sorry but you've still not shown that there's anything applicable to (current) UK law that prevents a DPF from being removed.

GolfBravo

neilmcl wrote: »

It's a directive, it's not a regulation. These are completely different things and are handled entirely differently.

I'm sorry but you've still not shown that there's anything applicable to (current) UK law that prevents a DPF from being removed.

DPF removal is definitely a very grey area.

Here is a copy of a response from DfT re: DPF removal - in their view it is illegal. But there is no specific UK legislation actually referring to DPF removal - I guess the legislation is years behind the current technology.

Gloomendoom

cepheus wrote: »

Where does it say that?

Right at the top...

COMMISSION DIRECTIVE 2010/48/EU
of 5 July 2010
adapting to technical progress Directive 2009/40/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council
on roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers

GolfBravo

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Doesn't that directive just refer to testing procedures, many of which are still not part of the UK MoT test despite the 31 December 2011 compliance deadline?

Yep. I think "still" is the key word here.

GolfBravo

cepheus wrote: »

Cleaning sounds like a good option if it works, however why did it get clogged up? Is it reaching regeneration temperature due to not travelling at higher speeds or long journeys?

The normal automatic regeneration (and also forced regeneration at a garage) doesn't remove all of the ash from the DPF due to relatively low exhaust temperatures. And there is also some eolys fluid residue that needs to be chemically removed at very high temperature and/or high pressure.

Professional regeneration removes on average around 97% of impurities from a filter, so you can easily get another 100K miles out of it. The two most popular DPF cleaning systems are made by Donaldson (mainly for trucks) and Puritech.

In fact, DPF cleaning is nothing new, it's been done for years for large Euro4 commercial vehicles - much cheaper to clean than to replace.

But I guess your local friendly Ford/Renault/VW/whatever stealer prefers to charge you £1000+ for a "new" filter. Or a cowboy exhaust "specialist" up to £500 to remove it (and then sell it on).

Paperbird

After reading some of it it looks more directed at HGV testing than cars.

andy8442

I had a VW T5 with a DPF. Had horrendous problems with the DPF, and eventually sold it. VW/Audi has/had serious problems with thier DPF technology but of course would never admit to it, but do a search of Re-mapping companies, and alot offer to switch off the DPF. Various reasons to do this,but mainly because the DPFs are a problem with this particular manufacturer.

Graham_Devon

GolfBravo wrote: »

But I guess your local friendly Ford/Renault/VW/whatever stealer prefers to charge you £1000+ for a "new" filter. Or a cowboy exhaust "specialist" up to £500 to remove it (and then sell it on).

Cleaning isn't always successful though....seen it too many times, not only in person with colleagues cars, but also on forums.

Indeed, cleaning can cost more, as you find in the end it wasn't the DPF, but something else causing the problems. You still have to pay for the cleaning process, regardless of if it works or not.

Removing them is ok, but it's the remapping and messing with the ECU that can cause issues. Seen one person on a forum have theirs removed and 20k miles needing another ECU (not related to the mapping)....so suddenly they have a new ECU and no DPF. Gotta get it mapped again.

Too many issues at the moment, and it's not even confined to one manufacturer. It's across nearly all marques. The latest one seem better, but I've heard of fleets getting rid of diesel altogether due to the time off road caused by all the new electronics and bolt on's.

DPF's are a funny old thing. People come and claim it's all heresay and they have never had a problem....until they do....and at that point, it's not funny at all.

I've seen a 56 plate Audi A4 nearly scrapped due to no end of problems literally driving the owner to thousands of pounds in debt. I've driven a Qashqai with TWO complete new engines and ancillaries at 120k...all down to emission issues.

Would be a different stories if you didn't have to pay garages to trial stuff.

GolfBravo

Yes, I've heard some horror stories about T5 DPF.

The first generation DPF system used by Peugeot/Citroen was also a disaster - their old filters wouldn't even last 50K miles in some cases. The second generation is way better, easily over 100K miles before regeneration is necessary.

A mate's wife drives a 11-reg VW Sharan 2.0 TDI DSG - the car's been to the garage twice already with DPF problems. To be fair though, she mainly uses it for a school run - 4 miles in total. That's 4 miles per day, with cold turbocharged diesel engine. 20mpg. Why did they buy a diesel? Because their dealer recommended it for better fuel consumption. :eek:

Gloomendoom

My car has a DPF. I'm a member of a very active owners' forum and, to date, only one member had a problem with the DPF. It was of his own making as he drove the car in limp mode for weeks. Unfortunately, in limp mode the DPF regen process is disabled so the filter clogged solid. Nobody else has reported any problems at all.

Personally, I like the DPF. It's nice to drive a diesel car that doesn't stink or blow soot out of it's arse.