Debt collectors - previous occupier

spike7451

caz2703 wrote: »

Not sure where people have gotten the idea that debt collectors have phoned as they haven't. Originally when post arrived we returned to sender but when letters arrived from debt collectors (a quick Google check on the sender) they were opened and the company contacted.

I thought debt collectors had powers to enter your property so thank you for the information that they can't - I must have missed that part of the post before. So how do debt collectors seize property if they can't access your property without your approval? Surely all it would take would be for you to refuse entry to them each time they arrive at your door.

I'm aware that opening post isn't a great idea and yes it's costing us money to phone up these companies but what would you do if after 3 years you were still being harassed? I know it's not like people are calling to the door demanding money but I'm annoyed that the previous occupant hasn't paid up what she owes, hasn't changed her address and is putting the onus on us to sort out her mess.

No,Court appointed Bailif's have the power of entry & seizure on execution of a court issued warrant.A bailiff & a debt collector are two different things entirely.

The Bailiffs Rights of Entry

The Bailiff cannot force entry into a domestic property. The bailiff can walk through an open door, climb over a garden wall, enter through an unlocked door or climb through an open window.
The Bailiff can force entry and seize goods if a debtor defaults on a Walking Possession Agreement.A Walking Possession Agreement can only be made after peaceful entry.
Walking Possession Agreement

This is an agreement signed by the debtor which allows the goods to remain with the debtor as long as they keep to a payment arrangement. However if the debtor defaults on a payment arrangement the bailiff can return, force entry, and seize the goods.

http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/money/creditanddebt/bailiffs

This is what the OFT (Office of Fair Trading) have to say about it:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

HTH,
Spike

bribrian

caz2703 wrote: »

what would you do if after 3 years you were still being harassed? I know it's not like people are calling to the door demanding money but I'm annoyed that the previous occupant hasn't paid up what she owes, hasn't changed her address and is putting the onus on us to sort out her mess.

Just treat it like i do, as junk mail & bin it. I still get garbage for a previous owner & i've lived in the house 11 years!

If it's posted through my letterbox without my name on it & i haven't asked for it to be delivered to me then it gets recycled.............. simple!

wifeforlife

The easiest way to stop this is to contact your local royal mail depot and ask that they only have you and your family's names associated with your property. I used to live in a rented property and I got mail for lots of different names, this is what I done and it stopped pretty sharpishly

Regards to debt collectors - the letters are from England and although they have baliffs and debt collectors we in NI although have them, they have no powers. Spikeys links are 100% genuine and correct

If it was me, I'd chuck them in the bin after so many years and nothing happening, and wouldn't worry myself about it

Cate

adouglasmhor

liam8282 wrote: »

I was just advising that it is illegal to open another persons post, that is a fact, there is no grey area about it.There is no grey area ablout it, it is not illegal, it is only ilegal if done for fraud or theft, that is what is meant by detriment in this instance. Stop talking rot

Sorry Liam you are incorrect.

adouglasmhor

liam8282 wrote: »

Explain the "grey area", taking account of the following:

1. The OP states they know the mail is addressed to the previous occupier, so it is no accident they have opened it.

2. An argument of "reasonable excuse" cannot be used, because the OP wouldn't have known debt collectors were after the previous occupier, had they not opened the post.

3. How can a debt collection company ring you, unless you have the same telephone number as the previous occupier?

Surely you must have contacted them and given them your number, it is almost impossible to get a persons house telephone number with only their address.

If the debt collection company searched for the previous occupiers name and your address for the telephone number, there would be no such number, when the person moved out their phone will have been taken with them or disconnected surely.

So for a debt collection company to contact you on your telephone number, they must have your name and address, not the previous occupier.

You cannot simply have an address and come up with a phone number, data protection act.....

I am not arguing about this, because I have been through the same, as I said I was trying to advise the OP.

If they are not bothered that they are illegally opening other peoples post, contacting debt collection companies at their own cost, and generally opening a can of worms for themselves fine.


Also, with regard to the point about debt collection companies calling when you are not in, if they were to do so and enter your property, it would be as good as breaking and entering. As I said before I think it would be very unlikely this would ever happen, but if it did just contact the police.

What detriment is intended?

I will answer that for you. NONE.
Therefore not illegal.

Also it's all very well saying call the police, but hwen one of these overgrown bullies is in your face on the doorstep it can be very intimidating to many people.

Also I had the same phone nuber as the previous occupier of my flat as mum and dad did with their house. Nothing unusual about it at all. If you find the number you do not need to pay reconection for a start.

liam8282

"There is no grey area ablout it, it is not illegal, it is only ilegal if done for fraud or theft, that is what is meant by detriment in this instance. Stop talking rot"

Purely by opening another persons post, when you can CLEARLY see that it is not addressed to you could be classed as "detriment", to the addressee or to the sender.

You are opening mail which is not addressed to you, which has a detrimental effect to the addressee, as they are not getting it. It also has a detrimental effect to the sender, it may mess up there systems and they continue to send letters out, because as far as they are concerned they are being received by the addressee.

If the debt companies ever did catch up with the addressee, they could argue that the OP was opening their mail, which caused the debt collection companies to believe they were still at the previous address etc.

All very unlikely, but still it doesn't take away from the fact that it is illegal to open other peoples post.

adouglasmhor

liam8282 wrote: »

"There is no grey area ablout it, it is not illegal, it is only ilegal if done for fraud or theft, that is what is meant by detriment in this instance. Stop talking rot"

Purely by opening another persons post, when you can CLEARLY see that it is not addressed to you could be classed as "detriment", to the addressee or to the sender.

You are opening mail which is not addressed to you, which has a detrimental effect to the addressee, as they are not getting it. It also has a detrimental effect to the sender, it may mess up there systems and they continue to send letters out, because as far as they are concerned they are being received by the addressee.

If the debt companies ever did catch up with the addressee, they could argue that the OP was opening their mail, which caused the debt collection companies to believe they were still at the previous address etc.

All very unlikely, but still it doesn't take away from the fact that it is illegal to open other peoples post.

Stop digging, you are quite wrong. I was employed by Royal Mail and worked in enforcement, and now organise mail shots for Local Government in Scotland, what are you bringing to the table?

liam8282

"Also it's all very well saying call the police, but hwen one of these overgrown bullies is in your face on the doorstep it can be very intimidating to many people."

Even better, you could say,

"Hold on a minute good man, I will just turn my computer on, go on to money saving expert and read out the legal definition of your job which somebody kindly posted up for me"

Personally, I would just say,

"I am not the person you are looking for, they moved out xx years ago, I have no connection to them, I don't know where they have gone, if you don't go away I'm calling the police"


At the end of the day, if the OP didn't open the previous occupiers letters, they wouldn't be any the wiser and wouldn't have any problem.

When the letters come, just save them, write "return to sender" and the next time your near a post box, stick them in it. Problem solved.

liam8282

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Stop digging, you are quite wrong. I was employed by Royal Mail and worked in enforcement, and now organise mail shots for Local Government in Scotland, what are you bringing to the table?

:j You WORKED for RM. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::T:T:T:T:T

Enforcement of what, making sure stamps were aligned correctly?

What did you get sacked for, opening other peoples letters?

liam8282

I'll bring this to the table:

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/EnergySupplyandPost/post/yourmail/mailforpreviousoccupiers

Under the Postal Services Act 2000, a person commits an offence if they open an item of post which they know or reasonably suspect has been correctly delivered to the address - but addressed to a previous occupant.

Royal Mail are obliged to deliver the post as addressed and advise that the only way to stop a mailing is at source.

Score through the address with a pen and write on the front of the envelope NOT KNOWN AT THIS ADDRESS RETURN TO SENDER. Put the mail back into a post box - free of charge. If there is no return address visible, Royal Mail have a returned letter centre in Belfast where they are allowed to open the mail and repatriate with the sender. The relevant database should then be amended and the mailings stop. If no suitable recipient can be established the item will be destroyed.