Debt collectors - previous occupier

leftieM

liam8282 wrote: »

It is illegal to be opening another persons post, even if it is addressed to your house.

It's a grey area. The law says that

"A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person's detriment and without reasonable excuse, opens a postal packet which they know or suspect to have been delivered incorrectly."

If someone has moved away from an address, has not arranged to have the mail redirected and has not informed the sender that they have moved, then the post has not been incorrectly delivered, so an offence has not been committed.

Given that debt collectors have called and the current occupant is in danger of being pursued for another's debt, it is reasonable excuse to open the post in order to directly inform creditors that they should take their hunt elsewhere.

Snoozle

liam8282 wrote: »

It is illegal to be opening another persons post, even if it is addressed to your house.

Just continue to return to sender.

I have the same problem at my house, still get mail for the previous occupiers after 6 years.

They do eventually start to dwindle down, but there is nothing much you can do.

Don't worry about debt collectors or anything, it isn't your debt and not your problem to worry about finding the previous occupier.

I have been sending things back 'return to sender' for the seven years that I have lived in my current home. For the first year or two I even provided them with the previous owners new address, but they still ignored it. Then I lost the address myself, so I couldn't even do that any more. Not one company took any notice of it at all, until I eventually started opening the letters and contacting them directly. I still have a few who insist that they are legally obliged to continue writing to the last address that they have on record, and I just continue to put these in the post marked return to sender.

Illegal or not, opening the mail was the only way that I was able to get things mostly sorted out. I'd be happy to fight my argument in court that I thought it was in the best interests of all, if it ever came to that (not that its likely to).

Golden_Anemone

Absolutely agree Snoozle and LeftieM. There is a specific federal offence in USA of "mail tampering" but no such offence exists in the UK. I would be very surprised if a court here didn't see your actions as "reasonable" in the circumstances.

liam8282

I was just advising that it is illegal to open another persons post, that is a fact, there is no grey area about it.

It may have your address on it, but it is addressed to the previous occupier which you can clearly see.

As advised by myself and others, just put it back in the post with "not at this address" or something similar.

There is no argument that they are from debt collectors etc. as you would not have known who they were from until you opened them. Perhaps it was your own curiosity that led to you actually opening the letters? I can see no reason why a letter from next cannot be returned to sender.

The OP hasn't been contacted by debt collectors, the OP has decided to take it upon themselves to contact the debt collectors, in the process racking up phone bills to premium numbers.

If debt collectors do ever turn up at your house, which is extremely unlikely, it is quite easy to sort out. You can easily prove that you are not the person they are looking for and that the person has moved. You do not need to give them access to your property and can call the police. But that is in the worst case scenario, as I said I have had similar problems at my house.

When I first moved in I actually had the police call at around 10 pm looking for the previous occupier of my house, but this was simply sorted out by showing them my driving licence and telling them they had moved out.

caz2703

To clarify a fact, I have been contacted by debt collectors acting on behalf of the likes of O2 etc. Sorry if this wasn't clear.

I am also aware that opening someone elses post is a bit illegal but considering after contacting one particular debt company we received another letter from them addressed to the previous occupant some time after I'd contacted them directly to inform them that they no longer lived here.

Also, don't get me wrong, if someone turns up to the house there's no way on earth I'd let them in but my worry is that if we're at work or on holiday that access would be gained regardless. If they haven't checked the electoral roll to make sure the previous occupant is still living here then what's to say they would check before letting themselves in and helping themselves to our contents?

I honestly thought that after 3 years of telling various companies that the woman doesn't live here that this would have been history so what worries me is how she is still racking up debt against our address as surely any items ordered would be delivered to a different address? I have to presume that as there's never been any mail forwarding nor have I had any parcels delivered here to the wrong person. They could be getting delivered to the store I guess but I'm just fed up with this still happening.

spike7451

caz2703 wrote: »

To clarify a fact, I have been contacted by debt collectors acting on behalf of the likes of O2 etc. Sorry if this wasn't clear.

I am also aware that opening someone elses post is a bit illegal but considering after contacting one particular debt company we received another letter from them addressed to the previous occupant some time after I'd contacted them directly to inform them that they no longer lived here.

Also, don't get me wrong, if someone turns up to the house there's no way on earth I'd let them in but my worry is that if we're at work or on holiday that access would be gained regardless. If they haven't checked the electoral roll to make sure the previous occupant is still living here then what's to say they would check before letting themselves in and helping themselves to our contents?

I honestly thought that after 3 years of telling various companies that the woman doesn't live here that this would have been history so what worries me is how she is still racking up debt against our address as surely any items ordered would be delivered to a different address? I have to presume that as there's never been any mail forwarding nor have I had any parcels delivered here to the wrong person. They could be getting delivered to the store I guess but I'm just fed up with this still happening.

Have a read of this:

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/money-tax-and-benefits/managing-debt/debts-and-arrears/enforcement-of-civil-court-orders-in-northern-ireland.htm

Debt collectors

Creditors may use a debt collection agency to collect their debt. Debt collectors aren't court officials and don't have the same powers as the EJO, in fact they have little or no legal authority. They can't enter your home or seize your possessions.
If a collector harasses you, you should contact your local trading standards department. If they threaten you physically, contact the police.

Golden_Anemone

liam8282 wrote: »

I was just advising that it is illegal to open another persons post, that is a fact, there is no grey area about it.

Did you miss this post liam8282?

leftieM wrote: »

The law says that

"A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person's detriment and without reasonable excuse, opens a postal packet which they know or suspect to have been delivered incorrectly."

The offence clearly only exists if certain conditions exist - ie,

1. a person opens mail that is not addressed to him/her

AND

2. the person opening the mail intends to act to the detriment of the person to whom it is addressed

AND

3. they do not have a reasonable excuse.

Think that's what leftie means by "grey area". Not quite as cut and dried as you would make it out but then the law rarely is. LAW101

liam8282

Explain the "grey area", taking account of the following:

1. The OP states they know the mail is addressed to the previous occupier, so it is no accident they have opened it.

2. An argument of "reasonable excuse" cannot be used, because the OP wouldn't have known debt collectors were after the previous occupier, had they not opened the post.

3. How can a debt collection company ring you, unless you have the same telephone number as the previous occupier?

Surely you must have contacted them and given them your number, it is almost impossible to get a persons house telephone number with only their address.

If the debt collection company searched for the previous occupiers name and your address for the telephone number, there would be no such number, when the person moved out their phone will have been taken with them or disconnected surely.

So for a debt collection company to contact you on your telephone number, they must have your name and address, not the previous occupier.

You cannot simply have an address and come up with a phone number, data protection act.....

I am not arguing about this, because I have been through the same, as I said I was trying to advise the OP.

If they are not bothered that they are illegally opening other peoples post, contacting debt collection companies at their own cost, and generally opening a can of worms for themselves fine.


Also, with regard to the point about debt collection companies calling when you are not in, if they were to do so and enter your property, it would be as good as breaking and entering. As I said before I think it would be very unlikely this would ever happen, but if it did just contact the police.

spike7451

liam8282 wrote: »

Also, with regard to the point about debt collection companies calling when you are not in, if they were to do so and enter your property, it would be as good as breaking and entering. As I said before I think it would be very unlikely this would ever happen, but if it did just contact the police.

Read my post above,that point is clarified on the official government website I linked to...

Debt collectors

Creditors may use a debt collection agency to collect their debt. Debt collectors aren't court officials and don't have the same powers as the EJO, in fact they have little or no legal authority. They can't enter your home or seize your possessions.
If a collector harasses you, you should contact your local trading standards department. If they threaten you physically, contact the police.

caz2703

Not sure where people have gotten the idea that debt collectors have phoned as they haven't. Originally when post arrived we returned to sender but when letters arrived from debt collectors (a quick Google check on the sender) they were opened and the company contacted.

I thought debt collectors had powers to enter your property so thank you for the information that they can't - I must have missed that part of the post before. So how do debt collectors seize property if they can't access your property without your approval? Surely all it would take would be for you to refuse entry to them each time they arrive at your door.

I'm aware that opening post isn't a great idea and yes it's costing us money to phone up these companies but what would you do if after 3 years you were still being harassed? I know it's not like people are calling to the door demanding money but I'm annoyed that the previous occupant hasn't paid up what she owes, hasn't changed her address and is putting the onus on us to sort out her mess.