Are the middle classes going to bail out the rest of the country?

C_Mababejive

Who are the middle class...?

fc123

PasturesNew wrote: »

I've always been working class. Economically and culturally. However, I do speak very nicely (I have actually been employed for my good speaking voice and it's been commented on).

But I am definitely working class. I just speak nicely and live a good life, thinking how my actions impact upon those in my environs.

I've already 'paid for' this mess, through reduced interest rates, reduced income (and reduced opportunity to do something worthwhile with my time/get a proper job) and I'm not middle class.

Inhertitance tax isn't something I'll ever have to worry about, nor CGT. But VAT would get me, especially in fuel for the car to get to work - and VAT on the basic bills of life ... then, when I do get a house, if I buy anything to go in it there'll be VAT on that too (I have zero possessions at the moment, so would need everything, although I'm seriously thinking about having zero furniture in it at least for the first 2-3 years)

If you like shabby chic/older furniture..I have a load you can have.....but it's got to be gone by 21 June...you would need somewhere to store it though. Just drop me a PM.

apt

carolt wrote: »

Not a load of baloney at all - OK, not all earning 50K qualify for the CGT, but they'd still lose out significantly by paying more tax/NI, the loss of (small) child tax credits, and more significantly, the loss of child benefit has been mooted.

We get £185/month child benefit for our 3 kids. If we lost that, that's a significant sum in taxed income to make up every month.

50K in some parts of the country is a very good family income. If you live in/around London, it's about the minimum you could get by on, as a family. Unless you were lucky enough to have a v low mortgage as you bought years ao, or a cheap counil rent.

That is precisely the point. £50,000 pa isn't anywhere near enough to buy a second house. I don't think child benefit is under threat. Child tax credits for middle incomes is unaffordable given the deficit. Everyone will have to pay more in tax as the nation has been living beyond its means.

marklv

Jonbvn wrote: »

Public transport is zero rated for VAT? Do you expect this to change in the forthcoming budget?

I think it may well change. I expect a 5% charge on all currently zero rated goods and services. I hope I'm wrong, but the temptation might be too strong to resist. I have also heard that VAT may be charged on newly built homes.

carolt

apt wrote: »

That is precisely the point. £50,000 pa isn't anywhere near enough to buy a second house. I don't think child benefit is under threat. Child tax credits for middle incomes is unaffordable given the deficit. Everyone will have to pay more in tax as the nation has been living beyond its means.

CGT is paid on shares too - you don't need to own a second home! But I agree that the CGT is less of an issue at that salary level than the Telegraph makes out.

But I wouldn't be too sure about child benefit - there have been a lot of suggestions recently that it would be removed along with child tax credits for 'higher' earners.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/13/spending-cuts-child-benefits-deficit


I sincerely hope you are right, though.

drc

This government really needs to encourage and reward private enterprise, not punish it. They should make the environment for private business as welcoming as possible, cut down on red tape and it sounds like Osbourne plans to reduce corporation tax which is a good thing. At the same time they should raise the tax threshold for lower earners and reduce tax credits in line with this so it makes more sense to go out and work a full week than do half days. This is the only way that they are going to wean the country off the dependency culture and reinstill a culture of hard work pays dividends. It's simply unaffordable to have a public sector/benefits sector that costs more than the private sector produces in taxes and this will only get worse as long as entrepreneurs and businesses are penalised for doing well and the business environment is unattractive.

ninky_2

apt wrote: »

That is precisely the point. £50,000 pa isn't anywhere near enough to buy a second house. I don't think child benefit is under threat. Child tax credits for middle incomes is unaffordable given the deficit. Everyone will have to pay more in tax as the nation has been living beyond its means.

i also think 50k+ a year is very different if you've been earning that for the last 20 years to if you've been on very low and unstable income for many years and are only recently at a point in your career to earn that amount. personally i now earn a very reasonable income but that comes after years of low paid contracts, gaps between contracts and trying to build up a career in a very fragmented industry. i only managed to get on the property ladder in my 30s and live in a modest 1 bed in a cheaper part of london. we couldn't afford to have kids without become what i would consider to be quite poor and that's before you look at cutting child tax credits.

PasturesNew

fc123 wrote: »

If you like shabby chic/older furniture..I have a load you can have.....but it's got to be gone by 21 June...you would need somewhere to store it though. Just drop me a PM.

Thanks, but I'm not buying at the moment, so I won't be needing any furniture.

PasturesNew

apt wrote: »

That is precisely the point. £50,000 pa isn't anywhere near enough to buy a second house.

You're thinking of it in today's terms, based on where you live. However, consider a couple who met 20 years ago, who bought their first house for £60k in 1990. Now, 20 years on, they've upgraded once, so have an £80k mortgage and then bought a small second home in the West Country 8 years ago, for £80k (which they might/might not rent out sometimes as a holiday let).

If they started out in life in a cheaper area, anything's possible.... there are many , many places where you could buy a house for £20-30k easily 20 years ago.

So, £50k income now, total mortgage £160k.

carolt

Just in case anyone has failed to post this, I had to oblige; it's too good to miss (and I sayt that as one of those it's lampooning ):

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/tax-hit-middle-class-threatens-widespread-passive%11aggression-201005172736/