Are the middle classes going to bail out the rest of the country?

marklv

Andy_L wrote: »

True, although a similar % of the lower echelons will have received bonus just for achieving their objectives.
However these bonus are contractual upon achieving those objectives and have been built up by holding back 1/4 or so of past pay rises to pay as "bonuses" instead of pay rises. This has resulted in reduced pension costs as the bonus isn't pensonable like a pay rise would be

Yes, and I condemn this practice. Giving one-off bonuses instead of proper pay rises is not the right way to reward staff, but when you have the government ordering pay freezes across the aboard, how can else can you retain useful staff?

baby_boomer

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

In Canada, a lot of the rapid savings in the central government budget was made by transferring spending to more local levels. This is consistent with the move to "localism" which the ConDems are so keen on

You come up with some garbage but this takes the biscuit.

Gordon was forever transferring responsibilities to local government so that he could wipe his hands of the bills.

Council Tax soared as a result under New Labour.

All central governments are likely to play this game - it's nothing unique if the new coalition try it too.

However people are starting to wise up to the fact that their Councils are in financial trouble because of statutory obligations that can't be cut and also their growing pension bills. Extra bills on top of that would stand out a mile.

fc123

The_White_Horse wrote: »

when GB kept on going on about cameron wanting to stop child trust funds, why didn't cameron just say - i don't WANT to stop them but there is NO money to pay for them you stuipid lefty filth.

.

I really can't see Cameron using that language...seriously...can you TWH?

Exocet

Are the middle classes going to bail out the rest of the country?
I am ready to do my bit as required. More tax, living standard cut backs, maybe even short time working - whatever it takes to put the Great back into Britain. Each time I fill up with petrol I look proudly at the price-o-meter as it heads towards sixty pounds, and only wish the screen were larger so passers by can see how much I am contributing.

As long as the government of the day sees fit to leave me some pocket money to pay for luxuries such as food and central heating I am happy. My one regret is that I don't think there are any public services that I use, so I won't be able to feel a real part of the coming cuts. I may redress that by joining the local library before it closes.

lostinrates

Pennywise wrote: »

As are great business ideas and inventions. After all, necessity is the mother of invention, or so they say!!

I've been an accountant for nearly 30 years, and have never seen such a low level of "true entreprenneurial activity" than the last few years. True, there's loads and loads of new "businesses" being started, but they fall into two groups - firstly those with money, either from redundancy payouts, early retirement on healthy pension, etc., who are starting "lifestyle" businesses - they hope to make a bit of money but aren't really bothered if it breaks even and highly unlikely to employ anyone,.....

I might be sort of that first type. No redundancy payment but a husband. I wouldn't mind making some pocket money while doing what I do well anyway, helping to pay for what I do. I would use the services of others, but apart from a few details there will be nothing ''entrepreneurial'' or innovative about it. This is mainly because the run through with planners, councils etc was always so obstructive each time I found a suitable property which I would have run as an innovative place crating real employment. when you think that afterwards the issues with insurances, facilities, rates, etc etc.....its not that we stopped wanting to or looking something easier, safer, cheaper and less radical just happened to come along. There are too many checks on growth/development without improving, say....employees conditions, IMO.

fc123

Pennywise wrote: »

As are great business ideas and inventions. After all, necessity is the mother of invention, or so they say!!

I've been an accountant for nearly 30 years, and have never seen such a low level of "true entreprenneurial activity" than the last few years. True, there's loads and loads of new "businesses" being started, but they fall into two groups - firstly those with money, either from redundancy payouts, early retirement on healthy pension, etc., who are starting "lifestyle" businesses - they hope to make a bit of money but aren't really bothered if it breaks even and highly unlikely to employ anyone, and the other group being those doing little more than "pretending" to be in business to get working tax credits. Of course, there are still some genuine entreprenneurs, but not many. Say 20 years ago, people were going into business often because of necessity and they worked damned hard to make it successful, and in turn, employed people, rented premises, contributed back into the local economy etc. I look at my client list today and see "consultants" and "ebayers" whereas 20 years ago, I was dealing with garages, shops, light industry, wholesalers, etc - quite a difference!

As a couple of true life examples. One guy, who took early retirement from a blue chip company spent the best part of £50k on a new "website" which failed spectacularly - not even achieving a single sale - £50k blown on payments to web designers, SEO specialists, etc etc. Another woman, who had two primary school aged children and a seriously ill husband started her own e-commerce site - had no money for outsiders so learned web design and seo herself, got cheap/fee domain names and hosting, etc., and has just turned over close to a million pound turnover with half a million net profit - she was determined not to end up stuck in a povery trap on benefits so she just got on with it and did what she thought she had to do. I see it time and time again - trouble is that there are fewer and fewer people who have the gumption and entreprenneurial spirit to take that leap of faith.

LJ posted it too....'hunger' and 'need' can drive some to achieve more...however, it can also destroy people if it goes t* up.

We have been S/E for 25 years with no tax credits or any subsidy....and it drove us to take bigger risks than we would otherwise have done. Some paid off and others were a disaster...but all stacked up good experience.

When I used to lecture young start up wannabes.the absolutely worst thing they could say was ''Well I want to start up but keep my F/T day job as well....then, if it works, I will go F/T.''. It may work for some but, on the whole, that mantra was a recipe for it not working 100%.

All and more of your brain power and energy needs to go into the venture from day 1. If you have a slush fund, fab, but if not, the need to generate x to live on the next month pushes you to the limit...which in turn, can create beter things/projects/income.



I write this as I just had a block veiwing on the house we rent which is an unconventional, unmodernised place but has space and amazing feng shui. They tromped in, they tromped out and some viewers were 'absolutely horrified'' ( I overheard one) as the LA has been a little dishonest in his write up....however, one lady came who only came as she knew the spiritualist next door and had been to one of her 'events' but it was over her 'safe' budget.
But she is an artist and, although has work in storage, cannot create more work as she downsized her life to a flat 3 years ago for personal reasons.

She stayed behind for a glass and a chat and we went though the house budget....exp CT and elec and gas etc...and she left torn.

Loves the view, loves the 'feel and it has space for her to create......but it's chicken and egg, she doesn't have the definate income for it long term. .....unless she picks up her art, does some open house and starts creating and selling again.

We had a long talk about it and weighed up pros and cons.....I will find out soon enough if she takes it soon enough or rents another smaller place and leaves her creative work on ice.

EMA? How long has that been about as that may be why more kids go onto to FE.

I brought up in kids in a grot part of SE London and chose to step out of the system (which meant trying to make more £££) as I don't feel the labour authority played fair at all. I am also sort of glad (with hindsight) we didn't have tax credits as we wouldn't have taken the huge risks and stress that got us the life we have for now (which could go of course).

dealsearcher

fc123 wrote: »

I really can't see Cameron using that language...seriously...can you TWH?

Apparently we are all one big family and we shouldn't squabble over money. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

bo_drinker

Many of the people who went for it back in the day did not have the t c buffer. Was there a bigger success rate back then ?? I can look at loads of businesses that people start up and know (especially High St) if they will last long or not, there are others who are def playing at it and were losing money hand over fist, maybe not as many now though (good job)
Some places though I never understand how they last, maybe I go there when they are at their quietest ??

carolt

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/7727656/Coalition-government-take-cover-for-the-3000-tax-bombshell.html

Coalition government: take cover for the £3,000 tax bombshell

Middle-income families could be more than £3,000 a year worse off under the new coalition Government.




How depressing - as if Labour didn't do enough to make it hard for families like ours; now the Tories are going to make it even worse.

fc123

bo_drinker wrote: »

Many of the people who went for it back in the day did not have the t c buffer. Was there a bigger success rate back then ?? I can look at loads of businesses that people start up and know (especially High St) if they will last long or not, there are others who are def playing at it and were losing money hand over fist, maybe not as many now though (good job)
Some places though I never understand how they last, maybe I go there when they are at their quietest ??

If you are talking shops then there will be all types and situations.

I do know of small places that are being run as a hobby,show micro profits so get CT and LHA etc but have a bit of cash in hand running through and it's a stable life. No pressure, top up with cash in hand when things are busy, bit tight when less so but the basics are taken care of.
Years ago, they would have shut down as not viable so is it a good thing or a bad thing?
A bad thing as rents won't go lower as the premises is being subsidised.

Then those ''mystery'' shops that maybe a front for cleaning up dirty money.

Hobby shops are fairly common...I wouldn't mind one of those one day:D
Income comes from elswhere and the shop just runs break even for fun.