Unreasonable pressure from my tutor at college. Help please!

sw-nw

ceridwen wrote: »

I am assuming from the turn of phrase and spelling that O.P. is foreign.

I am used to correcting the language of visitors to our country and explaining as simply as I can about our social customs/manners/etc - as I have (I think??:cool:) a reasonably good grasp of how things may differ in other countries.

Errrmm.....errr...I hope I got that right and O.P. is indeed foreign...?...

Really, never noticed any partitular British social customs/manners/etc. But I do learn how to respect as it's so multiculture here, different to my country anyway. I wonder if you can show me some lights here.

sw-nw

ceridwen wrote: »

Actually - I don't think its fair to O.P. to tell her that "her English...is fair" - because it simply isn't. B.A. or no B.A. (and I admit to being puzzled as to how she got a B.A. in Britain without the ability to speak good English...but then I finished my education many years ago now......:cool:).

A totally honest reply is what is most helpful here - and it was certainly quite clear to me from the outset that O.P. hasnt learnt our language properly yet and needs to improve this. Possibly another reason why O.P. is having problems is because they have been here 10 years now - so might genuinely assume they speak our language properly on the one hand BUT they are upsetting people they deal with (because we all know that someone who has lived here as long as that should speak English properly by now and would do so if they had been making an appropriate amount of effort to learn it).

My B.A degree was not awarded here. I was trying to stress my ability to learn and understanding. Can you please give me an example how to speak your language properly? On another thread, I have stated I was able to complete my course, I could understand and communicate with others.

sw-nw

GEEGEE8 wrote: »

I think she got her BA in China, her home country (I think)..

It's better than my Chinese that's for sure..

If she is doing childcare, then is it at a level that is acceptable? and was it mentioned when she started the course?

I have been applied for the course for 2 years. I had to study a preparation course at night, and passed entry exams. Why, it is because I have my own vision on childcare and education and I plan to do something about that.

sw-nw

Zazen999 wrote: »

OH my gosh!

That's not honesty, it's xenophobia.

Nasty, nasty stuff.

OP - please be assured; not all English people are like this.

I've seen MUCH worse language skills from people born and brought up in this country.

Dearie me. The responses on this thread are shocking.

I was trying to get advice so as to keep my mind open. I know myself. I just don't believe I have such big problem in English. In addition, I do hope I can have a reply from ceridwen how to speak English properly.

sw-nw

ceridwen wrote: »

NOT xenophobia at all - I am no racist:eek:

Just pure statement of fact. I would say that there is in most peoples heads some sort of "rule of thumb" as to how well we expect others to speak English. If I were to try and quantify it out - then howzabout:
1 year here - speaks enough English to be understood
2 years here - can hold a good everyday conversation
5 years here - an extremely good grasp indeed of English
10 years here - definitely should equal absolutely perfect English

I would expect the same standard from myself if I had moved to another country.

The fact that O.P. has spent 10 years here and their English is still far from perfect is not going to come over well to MOST of us.

I think I have allowed for very generous timings as to what standard of English I would think most of us expect. I believe the Dutch expect anyone wishing to settle in their country to take an exam at 3(?) years residency to prove that they can speak Dutch well. That seems like an eminently sensible policy here - a Government's policy mark you .....

(Zazen has in fact just upset ME - by getting things totally wrong and implying that I'm a racist. Anything further from the truth......as anyone who knows me ITRW would be able to assure her.....)

I agree with Briona about limition of learning language. It got difficult to improve after a while except I would have lived with locals.

Regarding to settlement, I hope you understand the reason I am here is because my contributions to the country and community, obviously, including language's standand, luckily, not set up by you.

sw-nw

anamenottaken wrote: »

What to do? Meet her again and agree the way forward.

Others have commented on the standard of English usage demonstrated in the post. What assessment of your English language skills was carried out before you began your current course?

I appliy it for 2 years, did a preparation course and passed entry exams. Hope it helps.

ceridwen

sw-nw wrote: »

I was trying to get advice so as to keep my mind open. I know myself. I just don't believe I have such big problem in English. In addition, I do hope I can have a reply from ceridwen how to speak English properly.

Maybe one of the best things you could do would be to get a mid-range British newspaper regularly - ie not one like "The Sun" or "The Mirror" (as the range of language in them is a bit limited) on the one hand or a "quality" newspaper (like "The Guardian", "The Independent", "The Times", "The Telegraph") on the other hand (as some British people would struggle a bit to understand some of the language in there on the other hand). A lot of British people would struggle with reading one of the "quality" newspapers. The newspaper you choose has to be "pitched at the right level".

What I suggest is to choose that mid-level choice of newspaper - for instance "The Daily Mail" is one set at that level (ie reasonably intelligent - but not University level type language). The local newspaper for your area would also be a good choice - as these are usually pitched at a mid-level (ie what you need to get).

Once you can read your way through a newspaper at that level and understand it all you are well on your way (keep two dictionaries by your side as you read = a good Chinese/English dictionary and a good English dictionary and refer to them every time you come across a word you don't know).

Also find suitable mid-range t.v. programmes to watch (ie not the "soaps" - so not things like "East Enders"). Choose good current affairs programmes and documentaries - then you should find that people on these are speaking standard language (perhaps you could watch ones like these on I-Player or record them off - so you could watch them through twice). The first time you watch them - you are doing so to follow the programme through and see what it's about. Whilst you watch it for the first time - make a note of any words or phrases you don't understand. Then go and look up those unknown words/phrases and learn what they mean. Having done that - watch the programme through a second time, so that you can see those words/phrases used in context and try to remember them.

Choose any suitable people you know personally that speak reasonable English (bearing in mind that some British people don't speak very good English themselves!). Choose only those British people who speak good/standard English with a good command of words and clear voices. When you find people like this - then tell them that you would appreciate it if they corrected your language any time you use the wrong words or grammar - so that you can learn the language better. Always bear in mind that some British people don't know how to speak their own language very well - so do choose which people you want to "mentor" you carefully. I find that some of the "posts" on M.S.E. for instance are difficult to understand - because the posters are obviously British - but are clearly too uneducated to put their points over in a way that others can understand = hence why you need to choose your British "mentors" carefully.

The accent doesn't matter that much - it's using the correct words and grammar that does matter. There are very very few people indeed who will ever learn to speak another language without an accent - I can only think of one person I know who has learnt to speak English with no accent at all. I can think of people who don't even live in Britain though who speak English absolutely perfectly - and I imagine that one of the ways they have learnt to speak it so well is probably because of regularly reading British newspapers and watching decent-quality British tv programmes.

ceridwen

I've just googled "Panorama + IPlayer" to find the "Panorama" tv programmes. That is very much the level I am recommending you follow. Everyone in them is likely to be speaking "standard" good English.

Panorama tv programmes, for instance, also have the advantage of helping to keep you up-to-date with current affairs.

I wasn't able to give a working link to one of the Panorama programmes. Perhaps someone else can help? (I was trying to link to one of the latest ones - ie "Are the Net police coming for you?" - a documentary about Internet piracy.)

anamenottaken

Try from here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7172159.stm
to here http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7170000/newsid_7176600/7176615.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=14&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2 (which is about keeping children safe online)

Zazen999

ceridwen wrote: »

What I suggest is to choose that mid-level choice of newspaper - for instance "The Daily Mail" is one set at that level (ie reasonably intelligent - but not University level type language). The local newspaper for your area would also be a good choice - as these are usually pitched at a mid-level (ie what you need to get).

Read the Daily Mail to learn How to speak English.

Oh the Irony.