Unreasonable pressure from my tutor at college. Help please!

PasturesNew

ceridwen wrote: »

Errrmmm.....<cough>...for whatever reason - your command of the English language is not great...

I am wondering what type of course you are doing. I guess it may depend a bit on whether it's a more "practically"-oriented course - or one where one has to be able to speak good English.

What type of course is it you are doing?

(whew...wipes forehead...having wondered how to put this.....)

I'm glad you said it. I call a spade a spade.

Fly_Baby

flossy_splodge wrote: »

Can I offer a few thoughts?
And before I get jumped on, I am TEFL qualified and I KNOW that Chinese students in particular work incredibly hard at their language skills (indeed as noted earlier in this thread it has also been MY experience that some foreign students speak English a lot better than the natives!).
I have highlighted in red just a few points.
So my offerings are:
I think you mean adviCe. There are a number of such situations where the letter changes between a C and an S.
An 'S' is used if it's a verb and if you want to change to the noun the 'S' needs to change to a 'C'.
So 'advice' is what is offered but a person doing the action 'advises'.

Instead of 'I will do it' it would perhaps be better to say something like 'I will follow it' or even 'I will try it'. No single right answer but 'I will do it' is not good English.
'But' - even in these days of poor standards it is still not good practice (not practise!;)) to start a sentence with a conjunction.

This next might just be jumpy fingers which we all suffer from sometimes when typing but I think you meant 'particularly'.

And finally, 'I did it myself' might be replaced by 'it was my own work'.

So you see in just one single posting there are a number of points that highlight some room for improvement in your English skills, which in many situations is totally irrelevant but if wishing to be involved in the education or care of the young, is VERY important.
As you will know the young learn by imitation.
Hope you take my input as it is intended, to support and clarify, I have no wish to upset you.
Very best of luck.

I am not the OP but thanks so much for such in-depth analysis! Personally I found it very useful - although I cannot help feeling a bit discouraged now as a language learner. I dread to think how many corrections you would suggest for my posts!

Can I just double-check something, out of curiosity?

Is it really not "good Enlish" to say "I'll do it"? I am sure I heard this expression in the comparable context more than once and in the environment which suggests a high standard of spoken English.

Same goes for "I did it myself".

Are you sure you are not being just a tiny bit too particular about this? I studied literary editing and I have been taught that there are grammar and stylistic mistakes and there is a matter of taste - and an editor cannot afford the latter to come into equation.

flossy_splodge

Fly_Baby wrote: »

I am not the OP but thanks so much for such in-depth analysis! Personally I found it very useful - although I cannot help feeling a bit discouraged now as a language learner. I dread to think how many corrections you would suggest for my posts!

Can I just double-check something, out of curiosity?

Is it really not "good Enlish" to say "I'll do it"? I am sure I heard this expression in the comparable context more than once and in the environment which suggests a high standard of spoken English.

Same goes for "I did it myself".

Are you sure you are not being just a tiny bit too particular about this? I studied literary editing and I have been taught that there are grammar and stylistic mistakes and there is a matter of taste - and an editor cannot afford the latter to come into equation.

Sorry, didn't mean to be off putting!
I actually would have gone a lot further if I was marking a student's work!
Using the verb 'to do' is indicative of not having a full grasp of English.
It's one of those verbs that certainly has its place but a strong English speaker would know a more specific verb that fitted the exact circumstances.
Yes, you're right that there is an area open to personal opinion, but in my view that is often used these days as an excuse for someone not knowing better.
English is a rich and colourful language and it grieves me to hear it being abused so much.
I invigilate for GCSE's at a local secondary school and most of us carrying out that role (here I could have said 'doing' that role but carrying out is more particular) are older school and we are constantly shocked at how poorly the staff speak and the lack of correction that happens.
When I used to teach (Maths, by the way, NOT English!!) I literally never had a student who didn't want to know better. They were an inspiration.
I think we have accepted people into the teaching profession who simply shouldn't be there.
It has nothing to do with what piece of paper you hold, what matters is your ability to find many different ways of explaining the same thing so you can reach as many learners as possible, your empathy for those struggling and your deep desire to inspire and inform.
I loved it and miss it.:)
Incidentally, I'm not talking about perfection, I'm talking about an acceptable standard.
Hope this helps.

Zazen999

anamenottaken wrote: »

We are digressing here - but, as I understand it, Zazen999 had been brought up originally to use a knife and fork but to cut the food (eg a steak) into bite-size pieces at the outset and then just use the fork (now in the dominant hand) to transport the meat from plate to mouth. This is quite common (I think those in the USA may do this?). The "norm" in England certainly used to be to cut one piece at a time. Using just a fork when the food is already in a form which does not require the use of a knife is fine, whatever the age.

Correct. I still don't see why one must use a knife and fork to eat, say, pizza just because it is the English way.

Anyhow.....as you say - a digression.

x-Princess-Vikki-x

My old flatmate at uni was from China and she asked us all to correct her on her speaking for any grammar mistakes. She said she would really appreciate it and not take offence.

She also used to ask us to look through her assignments for any mistakes in there also.

She had difficulty understanding certain accents (i.e. strong Northern or Birmingham) but she had an American tutor and therefore spoke with a bit of a US accent herself! and when she took a daytrip to Scotland she couldnt understand a word of what they were saying! haha I miss her!

Fly_Baby

flossy_splodge wrote: »

Sorry, didn't mean to be off putting!
I actually would have gone a lot further if I was marking a student's work!
Using the verb 'to do' is indicative of not having a full grasp of English.
It's one of those verbs that certainly has its place but a strong English speaker would know a more specific verb that fitted the exact circumstances.
Yes, you're right that there is an area open to personal opinion, but in my view that is often used these days as an excuse for someone not knowing better.
English is a rich and colourful language and it grieves me to hear it being abused so much.
I invigilate for GCSE's at a local secondary school and most of us carrying out that role (here I could have said 'doing' that role but carrying out is more particular) are older school and we are constantly shocked at how poorly the staff speak and the lack of correction that happens.
When I used to teach (Maths, by the way, NOT English!!) I literally never had a student who didn't want to know better. They were an inspiration.
I think we have accepted people into the teaching profession who simply shouldn't be there.
It has nothing to do with what piece of paper you hold, what matters is your ability to find many different ways of explaining the same thing so you can reach as many learners as possible, your empathy for those struggling and your deep desire to inspire and inform.
I loved it and miss it.:)
Incidentally, I'm not talking about perfection, I'm talking about an acceptable standard.
Hope this helps.

I wish my son had teachers like you!

Incidentally, I have a language degree in my native language and I feel the same outrage seeing how badly my language is abused nowadays. I wonder if it is a global trend?

I only hope I will get just as proficient in English some day! Maybe I should [STRIKE]do[/STRIKE] study for an English language degree.

SueC_2

Zazen999 wrote: »

Correct. I still don't see why one must use a knife and fork to eat, say, pizza just because it is the English way.

QUOTE]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that a knife and fork should be used to eat everything, and there are many many things that even the 'Jolly old English' eat differently... cornflakes... pasta... soup... porridge... burgers...

But that still doesn't change the fact that if you are supervising an English school dinner hall and attempting to teach good table manners to the children there, it is most likely to be appropriate to teach them to use a knife and fork.

If I go to a chinese restaurant, I eat with chopsticks. That doesn't mean it is correct for me to do the same when I am eating shepherds pie at home!

flossy_splodge

Fly_Baby wrote: »

I wish my son had teachers like you!
Thank you, that's kind.
Incidentally, I have a language degree in my native language and I feel the same outrage seeing how badly my language is abused nowadays. I wonder if it is a global trend?
I hope not!
I only hope I will get just as proficient in English some day! Maybe I should [STRIKE]do[/STRIKE] study for an English language degree.

That's perfect - made me smile!

ceridwen

x-Princess-Vikki-x wrote: »

My old flatmate at uni was from China and she asked us all to correct her on her speaking for any grammar mistakes. She said she would really appreciate it and not take offence.

She also used to ask us to look through her assignments for any mistakes in there also.

She had difficulty understanding certain accents (i.e. strong Northern or Birmingham) but she had an American tutor and therefore spoke with a bit of a US accent herself! and when she took a daytrip to Scotland she couldnt understand a word of what they were saying! haha I miss her!

One doesn't have to be from elsewhere not to understand some of the British accents. I have sometimes acted as "interpreter" between people from two different parts of Britain - because they couldn't understand each other:rotfl::rotfl:.

Zazen999

SueC wrote: »

But that still doesn't change the fact that if you are supervising an English school dinner hall and attempting to teach good table manners to the children there, it is most likely to be appropriate to teach them to use a knife and fork.

If I go to a chinese restaurant, I eat with chopsticks. That doesn't mean it is correct for me to do the same when I am eating shepherds pie at home!

Hi

I could use a knife and fork. I used it very well. I used it to cut up my food and then put the knife DOWN and used the fork to eat my food.

Can I repeat again. I DID use my knife and fork. DID. That's DID. I did not need teaching to use a knife and fork.

All these English teachers and you can't understand a simple sentence.

Would you like someone to stand behind you whilst you are in the Chinese Restaurant holding your hands for the whole meal remonstrating on how STUPID you are because you are not using chopsticks PROPERLY like the CHINESE do? Or would you just like to get on and eat your meal the way you want to in your own good time?

But again, a digression.