What will the new government mean for tenants?

N79

Well I disagree - a laundrette visit costs less than GBP10 per week - not very expensive compared to the running costs of a home washing machine and tumble dryer.

I suspect that you are right that there is now a problem of availability (I don't know) due to the fact that everyone believes that they have a basic need and a human right (are you seriously arguing that a tumble dryer is a human right?:o) to dry their clothes at home. However, if the demand rises I'm sure plenty of people will provide laundrettes.

In fact in a number of countries in Europe, very few flats have a washing machine (and even fewer a tumble dryer) and using a laundrette is very much the norm. Using one is sociable, provides a sense of community and is a great way to meet people and take part in local gossip - it is not time consuming. Five minutes to load and invite whoever else is loading their washing at the same time to join you for a drink at the cafe next door. It must be an English middle class "ism" that there is something wrong with laundrettes - I'm afraid I don't understand it.

yellowmonkey

No one in Eastenders has a washing machine....:D


I'll get my coat

pyueck

N79 wrote: »

Well I disagree - a laundrette visit costs less than GBP10 per week - not very expensive compared to the running costs of a home washing machine and tumble dryer.

I suspect that you are right that there is now a problem of availability (I don't know) due to the fact that everyone believes that they have a basic need and a human right (are you seriously arguing that a tumble dryer is a human right?:o) to dry their clothes at home. However, if the demand rises I'm sure plenty of people will provide laundrettes.

In fact in a number of countries in Europe, very few flats have a washing machine (and even fewer a tumble dryer) and using a laundrette is very much the norm. Using one is sociable, provides a sense of community and is a great way to meet people and take part in local gossip - it is not time consuming. Five minutes to load and invite whoever else is loading their washing at the same time to join you for a drink at the cafe next door. It must be an English middle class "ism" that there is something wrong with laundrettes - I'm afraid I don't understand it.

For clarity I have never and will never say that having a tumble drier or a washing machine is a human right (see my previous post). I also agree that laundrettes could be a good source of gossip. I suspect most people don't want to use them because:
1) They are very time consuming. Its not the loading that takes the time it is the getting there, dragging a big sack into the laundrette, waiting for it to work, transferring the clothes to the tumble drier, waiting again, removing clothes, dragging a big sack out again, going home. Probably 2 hours for most people, and that assumed you only have one load of washing, get whites, darks, colours, delicates and you could be there most of the day.
2) They are expensive, £10 is what you can expect to pay for one load, many people will have 3-4 a week (colours, whites etc) and the costs soon add up, especially as they don't usually include washing powder and detergent.

I love your idea of this cafe culture, I agree I wish there was more than a sense of community in most places in the UK. I just think tenants are justified in wanting a washing machine as it is a huge hassle to not have one.

Can I ask how you would feel if I took away your washing machine and you had to go to the laundrette to do any washing you had? Somewhere to wash and dry clothes in your home, Human right, no, basic need of accomodation most definately yes. Tennants justified in requiring it, yes.

wessexw

pyueck wrote: »

Do you seriously believe this? Just where do you intend tenants to dry their clothes if they are not provided with a tumble drier or outside space?

Oh come off it, I've been living in a nice privately rented flat for the last 2 years with no tumble drier or outdoor space and I dry everything on a clothes horse. It never fails to dry overnight and be ready for me in the morning. It's hilarious if you consider a tumble drier as a 'basic human right'!! And guess what - there's no dishwasher either so I have to manually do my own dishes!!!!

pyueck

wessexw wrote: »

Oh come off it, I've been living in a nice privately rented flat for the last 2 years with no tumble drier or outdoor space and I dry everything on a clothes horse. It never fails to dry overnight and be ready for me in the morning. It's hilarious if you consider a tumble drier as a 'basic human right'!! And guess what - there's no dishwasher either so I have to manually do my own dishes!!!!

Sorry but where has everybody got this idea that I said a tumble drier or outdoor space is a human right. If you read my posts you will find that my problem is that modern flats provide very small living space, which can be seriously compromised if there is no facility to dry clothes. This leaves many tenants with little living space, which I believe impacts on peoples quality of lives.

I am not talking about human rights, I am saying that I would like to see the next government that encourages building of accomodation that is more appropriately proportioned, to allow more people to live in accomodation that allows them to dry clothes (without seriously compromising their living space) and have some storage space. Unfortunately the previous government mainly only allowed building on brownfield sites which encouraged small proportioned properties.

What I am talking about is not to do with lazyness of tenants who can't be bothered (I have no objection to a flat without a dishwasher), I am saying that I disagree with the policy of most new housing stock being very small flats, and I believe this has an impact on tenants (and all other occupiers) quality of lives. The government should strive to implement policies where people do not have to live with washing that impacts their already small living space, and increase the supply of well proportioned (not huge) family properties, that people on modest incomes can afford to buy and rent, even in the south east. What's so hilarious about this?

LittleMissAspie

N79 wrote: »

Well I disagree - a laundrette visit costs less than GBP10 per week - not very expensive compared to the running costs of a home washing machine and tumble dryer.

I suspect that you are right that there is now a problem of availability (I don't know) due to the fact that everyone believes that they have a basic need and a human right (are you seriously arguing that a tumble dryer is a human right?:o) to dry their clothes at home. However, if the demand rises I'm sure plenty of people will provide laundrettes.

In fact in a number of countries in Europe, very few flats have a washing machine (and even fewer a tumble dryer) and using a laundrette is very much the norm. Using one is sociable, provides a sense of community and is a great way to meet people and take part in local gossip - it is not time consuming. Five minutes to load and invite whoever else is loading their washing at the same time to join you for a drink at the cafe next door. It must be an English middle class "ism" that there is something wrong with laundrettes - I'm afraid I don't understand it.

Are you saying it costs £40 a month to run a washer/dryer??? Our total gas and elec bill is £37 a month and most of that is the electric shower.

Having been without a washing machine for 3 weeks recently we were really surprised at the lack of laundrettes. The closest one is a 25 min walk away and there is no parking, you can't even stop outside because it's on a junction. My city is very anti-car anyway so we couldn't find anything here with parking. We drove to one 10 miles away... to find it closes at 5pm. Really useful for people who work :rolleyes:

Wee_Willy_Harris

Jowo wrote: »

For example, a single parent of 2 children typically receives in their hand each week around £65 income support, £35 in child benefit and £100 tax credits. On top of this £200 per week, they get full council tax discount so this equates to around 11.5k per year, the equivalent of a taxable salary of around 14, and not have to pay a penny towards their rent, no exposure to child care costs and no travel expenses for work.

They can keep all the CSA they are given, plus up to £15 per week if their rent is lower than the LHA rate. If their rent is £200 per week, which it is for 2 bedroom properties in many areas, this takes up their notional income to more than £400 per week through all their benefits, which means they'd need to earn £500 per week to replace what they receive through the state, plus have a liability to pay travel expenses to get to work and childcare costs they did not have to spend on before.

The figures you give are presented in such a distorted manner that they can do nothing but give a very misleading interpretation of the truth.

N79

pyueck wrote: »

For clarity I have never and will never say that having a tumble drier or a washing machine is a human right (see my previous post). I also agree that laundrettes could be a good source of gossip. I suspect most people don't want to use them because:
1) They are very time consuming. Its not the loading that takes the time it is the getting there, dragging a big sack into the laundrette, waiting for it to work, transferring the clothes to the tumble drier, waiting again, removing clothes, dragging a big sack out again, going home. Probably 2 hours for most people, and that assumed you only have one load of washing, get whites, darks, colours, delicates and you could be there most of the day.
2) They are expensive, £10 is what you can expect to pay for one load, many people will have 3-4 a week (colours, whites etc) and the costs soon add up, especially as they don't usually include washing powder and detergent.

I love your idea of this cafe culture, I agree I wish there was more than a sense of community in most places in the UK. I just think tenants are justified in wanting a washing machine as it is a huge hassle to not have one.

Can I ask how you would feel if I took away your washing machine and you had to go to the laundrette to do any washing you had? Somewhere to wash and dry clothes in your home, Human right, no, basic need of accomodation most definately yes. Tennants justified in requiring it, yes.

I didn't think you believed it was a human right - hence the smiley face!

Since you asked me a question though - for nearly all of my adult life I have lived without a washing machine - I only had one for the 2 years I lived near London.

I fondly remember going to the laundrette each week. I made many friends, some of which have lasted and learnt three languages. Although I admit that this was not in the UK so "your milage may differ". What else would I have spent the time doing? Slumped in front of the TV on my own? Much nicer to be out meeting people!

As for now, well I must admit I don't have a washing machine at the moment and have no plans to get one. But I don't think I'm a representative sample.

adg1

I must clarify a mistake - I meant basic right, not human right. Thats what comes with rushing.

I still, though, strongly believe a tumble dryer is not a needed item to live comfortably.

N79

pyueck wrote: »

What I am talking about is not to do with lazyness of tenants who can't be bothered (I have no objection to a flat without a dishwasher), I am saying that I disagree with the policy of most new housing stock being very small flats, and I believe this has an impact on tenants (and all other occupiers) quality of lives. The government should strive to implement policies where people do not have to live with washing that impacts their already small living space, and increase the supply of well proportioned (not huge) family properties, that people on modest incomes can afford to buy and rent, even in the south east. What's so hilarious about this?

Amen to that. I totally agree that the current planning laws are a joke and that the governments housing policy over the last few decades has been an incoherent, jumbled mess which has made matters worse. The new flats that I have seen over the last decade are so small that I would not even put my "washing machine" in one. They will simply become the ghettos of the future as more and more owner occupiers move out and they get snapped up by LLs who will use the LHA market distortion to make a fat profit out of the taxpayer while filling them with "undesirable" Ts. Where are the 3 and 4 bed flats for young families? If anyone finds one in the UK then let me know.

I just find it amusing that one area you focus on is drying clothes - to which there is a simple remedy. The problem is far wider than that.

Edit: We got the idea because you quoted the European declaration on human rights in one of your posts and constructed a (weak in both our opinions) argument from it.