Enduring Power of Attorney prior to Oct.07

Biggles

cashferret wrote: »

Individual EPAs can be drawn up differently. In some, it says that the attorney can't start using it until the donor has lost mental capacity. Others are unrestricted and can be used whenever the donor tells the attorney to start acting. Look at the wording of your donor's EPA to see which your type is.

There is only one type of EPA, it was a standard form, at least for the last few years of its existence. It was possible for the donor to write, in Part B on the second page, any restriction s/he chose as to what the attorney(s) may do, or under what circumstances. One restriction could have been that the attorney must not act until the donor was becoming mentally incapable. But, in the absence of any conditions written here, the power of the attorney would be unrestricted.

I am anxious about this looking like my money, from the point of view of HMRC and DWP (I am on means-tested disability benefits). Am I right to worry? What alternatives do I have?

The accounts should each be in your parent's sole names, though your own cheques would read 'Mr Cashferret, POA for Mrs Cashferret' or similar. You are right in the need to ensure that the Halifax are not making them each joint accounts with you.

cashferret

Biggles wrote: »

The accounts should each be in your parent's sole names, though your own cheques would read 'Mr Cashferret, POA for Mrs Cashferret' or similar. You are right in the need to ensure that the Halifax are not making them each joint accounts with you.

Thanks, Biggles - that's extremely useful. I phoned HRMC yesterday to ask for advice on how to set up these accounts (should have thought of that sooner!) and the adviser had no clue. They're going to get a "technical adviser" to phone me back.

At every stage with this POA I'm finding that it is really, really hard to get info on the practicalities and almost everywhere seems to want the donor to sign something saying that it's OK for me to start using the EPA, even though it is unrestricted. They all have different forms. I thought the whole point of them was to spare the donor from dealing with paperwork when they become too tired and ill to do it.

I think the Office of the Public Guardian could do everybody a real favour by producing a booklet on how to do all this stuff and the govt could help by requiring every institution to use the same, standard form to fill in, not requiring the donor's signature. I will write and suggest it!

Biggles

There seemed to me to be a weath of ignorance as to how PoAs are operated, mainly on behalf of bank staff, who are the people attorneys need help from and ought to be able to rely on.

I found the only route was to make sure I knew exactly what my rights were with my Mum's EPA and, where necessary, to explain firmly to banks exactly what they should be doing with them and to persist until they found someone who knew that it could be done.

To be fair, it's not the role of the OPG or of HMRC to tell banks how to function but someone, somewhere, at any bank should know how it works. But you may find you have to progress up to chain of management and/or threaten to move banks.

The Halifax 'rule' about 'no more than two signatories' is unfortunate but I'm sure they can find ways around it if they need to. It might depend on whether there are any good (tax?) reasons for keeping the account as joint. If so, surely they can keep the joint account in your parents' names (and not yours) but have just one of them and you as the signatories??

cashferret

Just spoke to HMRC and the Halifax (again). HMRC said that I mustn't have an a/c in joint names with my parents or I'd be liable for a share of tax on any interest. The Halifax said that it would be clear that I'd be the POA on any a/c so I wouldn't be liable for any interest and it would be clear it wasn't my money. They're adamant (for a fifth time!) that the account can't stay in my parents' joint names but said that they're aware that this isn't working well for customers and that they're looking to change it, but with a timescale of maybe a year or so.

Someone needs to write a booklet!

cashferret

Thanks, Sloughflint - that's reassuring about your having POA on your cheques etc.

My Mum still has mental capacity (but is now too ill to even sign stuff) but my Dad has lost mental capacity and we're registering him with the OPG. I'm the only one capable of going to the bank & dealing with any admin. I'm tempted to switch banks but expect Mum to become well again to at least use a cashpoint - I don't want to have to get a new card for her with a number she might find hard to remember. On the other hand, maybe we can choose the same PIN.

Thanks for the recommendation of LTSB - that was going to be my next job, finding out who sensibly lets POAs add themselves on!

Savvy_Sue

You can usually change the PIN, back to the old one if so desired!

MotownFox

cashferret wrote: »

Thanks, Sloughflint - that's reassuring about your having POA on your cheques etc.

My Mum still has mental capacity (but is now too ill to even sign stuff) but my Dad has lost mental capacity and we're registering him with the OPG. I'm the only one capable of going to the bank & dealing with any admin. I'm tempted to switch banks but expect Mum to become well again to at least use a cashpoint - I don't want to have to get a new card for her with a number she might find hard to remember. On the other hand, maybe we can choose the same PIN.

Thanks for the recommendation of LTSB - that was going to be my next job, finding out who sensibly lets POAs add themselves on!

Cashferret as your Dad has lost mental capacity and you're registering the EPA with the OPG it would be better to have separate accounts as the OPG can if they wish ask for details of your fathers transactions as part of their overal protection of the person's affairs. Therefore having a joint account would be confusing as you would have to find which transactions were which. Also as this request from the OPG could be months down the line after the transactions had taken place it would take some time and effort to sort out.

The new account relating to your dad would have it's own details PIN etc which your mother wouldn't need to know anyway as you can operate the account yourself. Your mothers account as mentioned could have a new PIN but can be amended to the same memorable PIN as before as mentioned by Savvy Sue

pmlindyloo

This may be useful:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/family/managing_affairs_for_someone_else.htm

kpwll

I also have an EPA for my stepmother, she is 90 yrs old, partially sighted and as sharp as a tack. For the past 8 years she has been more at ease with me handling all of her business. She banks with Lloyds and I gave them a copy of the EPA to register and have had no problems at all with them. With all other businesses, again a copy of the EPA has been sufficient to cause no problems. I hope you can get your problem sorted out, good luck.