Enduring Power of Attorney prior to Oct.07

brucebarnard

May I ask this on here:

In March 2007 my Mother had an Enduring Power of Attorney executed and it was signed at this time. According to the Office of Public Guardian web site I as the attorney do not need to have this registered and indeed can not have it registered as my Mother still has mental capacity. However, Barclay's Bank, very recently, after initially accepting the above EPA within a few days stopped my ability to manage my Mother's finances. On going into a Barclay's branch I was shown why from their own web site. What I read there conflicts with the OPG site! This in effect means what is a perfectly valid and legal document, showing it is my Mother's wishes for me to represent her and manage her finances, Barclay's is refussing to accept. Are they behaving illegally? What should I do next!
Thanks

dzug1

Are Barclays saying that the EPA is not valid? If so that's plain wrong.

Or are they saying they will have nothing to do with it? Not sure if they have the right to do so or not. I suspect it breaks some item of the Banking Code though.

If they won't shift your options are another bank (and finding one that understands powers of attorney at all is not always simple) or getting a Lasting Power of Attorney set up. Well strictly your mother's options, not yours.

brucebarnard

Hi dzug1. Cheers for replying.

dzug1 wrote: »

Are Barclays saying that the EPA is not valid? If so that's plain wrong.

Yes. And the Barclay's branch actually rang up their Legal department in Manchester when I was there. But they are just plain wrong in that. Its only today I have researched this and found the Office of Public Guardian web site and it definitley says there that as this EPA was in effect before the law changed in October 2007 then there is no need for me to have it registered unless she begins to or loses her mental capacity.

Or are they saying they will have nothing to do with it? Not sure if they have the right to do so or not. I suspect it breaks some item of the Banking Code though.

I consider it obstructive at least. This EPA expressly shows what is my Mother's wishes. What right, legal or not can they disregard it??? As you might guess I am not a little annoyed with Barclay's!

If they won't shift your options are another bank (and finding one that understands powers of attorney at all is not always simple) or getting a Lasting Power of Attorney set up. Well strictly your mother's options, not yours.

The thing is though, although my Mother still has mental capacity she is just old and tired and has no wish whatsoever to manage her finances and to move her money to another bank is really beyond her(she is in care presently and has mobility problems and I doubt she could manage her finances/banking by telephone.) Yes, she could have a LPA done...but this will cost her and then to have it registered with the OPG another £120....and for no real reason other than Barclay's(and Halifax I might now mention who she has savings with paying 0.1% intereest!!!)refusal to accept her legally based wishes! Grrrrrrrrrr!
Thanks for you reply.

brucebarnard

dzug1 wrote: »

Are Barclays saying that the EPA is not valid? If so that's plain wrong.

Or are they saying they will have nothing to do with it? Not sure if they have the right to do so or not. I suspect it breaks some item of the Banking Code though.

If they won't shift your options are another bank (and finding one that understands powers of attorney at all is not always simple) or getting a Lasting Power of Attorney set up. Well strictly your mother's options, not yours.

Ahhhhh, you mentioned the Banking Code...that deserves looking into! Cheers again.

Biggles

Barclays are indeed 'just plain wrong'. That EPA is valid and will be indefinitely, while she maintains her 'mental capacity'.

Ring up Barclays legal department yourself: it's usually the case that each person you speak to in a bank has a slightly different understanding of PoAs from the next guy. If you keep pushing, you will sooner or later find someone that understands the rules properly.

And I don't know what it says on their website (nothing relevant comes up on what is available publicly) but don't mention it to them, and make sure you don't let them rely on passing the buck to some anonymous website typist.

monkeyspanner

We had a similar problem with Abbey who refused to allow my MIL access to her account because my wife had registered an EPOA on it, they cancelled the ATM card and left her without access to cash until we could sort it out.

The high street bank staff really do not understand POAs of either type and Abbeys branch manager even suggested a joint account as a solution which was rediculous and could have left my MIL open to all sorts of problems..

My wife threatened Abbey with disability rights legislation but this only resulted in a small compensation payment for my MIL's inconvenience not a solution. Eventually we changed the account to LloydsTSB who were better but still not ideal.

grannyjo

if the epa is not registered as she is still mentally capable, then the bank could be right to reject it. registering it costs about £120 I believe- but only allowed once she is mentally unable to manage her affairs.-( but have not checked up on this cost). My neighbour has just registered his mothers epa and can now pay her bills etc. We had a similar problem with my mother being too tired to deal with money. For us the solution was to wheel her down to the bank- tell them my mother wanted to make her account a joint one with me, and they asked her if that was what she wanted. Ive' done all her cheques, direct debits etc. for the past 4 years. this year we had a problem because the pensions people would not talk to me on the phone, so they advised that I became an appointee, which involved a visit from the oap people to check this is what she wanted and that is now set up. The other problem we've had is insurance companies, utilities refusing to talk to me, so my name has gone on all the accounts as someone my mother has given permission, to discuss the account. Good luck - joanna

grannyjo

I forgot. The EPA will be valid- ie acceptable to be registered, as long as your mother needs it- don't be conned into doing a LPA. they are far more complicated and expensive

grannyjo

I've just read your posts again and think the problem is that you are correct in that the epa is valid and always will be unless your mother revokes it. However it cannot be used until registered. the point of them is that if we suddenly become incapable after an accident or wharever, then the form can be registered. Every one in my family made one before the cut off date as they are so important. Normally they state that they cannot be registered until mentally incapable. If people do not have an epa or LPA then the courts have to become the manager of the money. This can be very expensive- eg £25 costs for any letter they send- so you were completely right to set this up- but it does not give you power of attorney until it is registered.
if you typr in register an epa into google- it gives you information how to register it- but while mentally capable, we manage as above as named people, joint accounts etc- and my mum is in a care home too

dzug1

grannyjo - I'm afraid you are totally but totally confused on this and twisting yourself into further knots on each post

An EPA (made before the cutoff date) is valid and can be used without being registered unless the donor revokes it. Indeed it cannot be registered. It ceases to be valid (and must then be registered to continue using it) if the donor loses mental capacity.

An LPoA has to be registered before it can be used. The donor specifies when it is to be registered - either straightaway or on loss of mental capacity or indeed anything else they specify

cashferret

I've just been trying to get the EPA we drew up for my mum enacted. I think there might be some confusion (!) from people discussing slightly different things here.

Individual EPAs can be drawn up differently. In some, it says that the attorney can't start using it until the donor has lost mental capacity. Others are unrestricted and can be used whenever the donor tells the attorney to start acting. Look at the wording of your donor's EPA to see which your type is.

If the donor has lost/is losing mental capacity to deal with their finances, as attorney you must register the EPA with the Court of Protection before you can start using it. This is a protection against abuse of the donor.

If the EPA was unrestricted and the donor still has mental capacity (but just wants you to deal with things for them), you have to present the EPA to the bank and register it with them (not the Court of Protection - the bank!). Maybe this is where some of the confusion has come in.

I've just been to the Halifax to try to enact my Mum's EPA and they are registering it (it has to be sent off to some central Halifax place and takes around 10 days). The Halifax has a Power of Attorney helpline which is 08456 021997.

Their branch person I had the appointment with tried to be helpful but was uninformed. She usefully phoned for help during our interview - try asking for that to happen if you are not convinced the person you're dealing with is doing the right thing.

Actually, I have a question! My parents have a joint current account and the Halifax's security systems allow a max of two people per account. I therefore can't be a co-signatory. They want me to set up a new current a/c for each of my mum and dad (both need me to be attorney; we are registering my dad's EPA with the Court of Protection).

I am anxious about this looking like my money, from the point of view of HMRC and DWP (I am on means-tested disability benefits). Am I right to worry? What alternatives do I have?