Cut Scotland loose – then we’ll have a fair voting system - The Times

Shakethedisease

Why could not such a thing be enforced for all Scottish MPs?

Because they were voted in on a UK general election ?

And why pick on the Scottish all the time ? There's another 2 devolved parliaments.

That being said, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the 'enforcement' is put into practice. Just a shame that when things were the other way round for the past 100 years or so, and particularly the last Tory administration.. that there were absolutely no qualms whatsoever on English MP's voting on purely scottish issues. I'll quote the poll tax for just one of them.

Honestly, it's a little bit hysterical all this 'cut the Scot's loose, English votes for English issues' thing. You were quite happy when things were the other way round ? I paid a year's more poll tax than you because of it.:think:

new_home_owner_3

LydiaJ wrote: »

Err.. no. The map may look as though England was very blue in 2005, but that's because Tories do better in large rural constituencies, whereas Labour get more of the densely populated, geographically small urban ones. Labour easily had a majority in England in 2005 as well as in the Union.

So in other words labour do well in the over populated unemployed places in england and they also do well in scotland and wales where they give free prescriptions and free university tuition fees?

Isnt it ironic that all the seats the labour government won feature highly in this other map of britain, to show high unemployment?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8258405.stm

What does that tell you?

Its tells me the scottish and welsh voted labour because they get free prescriptions and tution fees and the people who voted mostly labour in england dont work and are scroungers who want free handouts all the time.

My mate at works lad, hes a apprentice plumber, and his dad said to me he was having a go at him about him moving out getting his own place and his answer was to get his girlrfiend pregnant and pack in work, he said thats what all his mates have done and they do quite well from it moneywise and they get housed without doing a stroke.

Now you have to ask yourself who has created this culture?

This is what labour have done for this country

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/133790/DAD-TOO-MOODY-TO-WORK

new_home_owner_3

Shakethedisease wrote: »

And why pick on the Scottish all the time ?

Becasue they are arsxholes:D only joking:cool:

LydiaJ

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Because they were voted in on a UK general election ?

And why pick on the Scottish all the time ? There's another 2 devolved parliaments.

That being said, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the 'enforcement' is put into practice. Just a shame that when things were the other way round for the past 100 years or so, and particularly the last Tory administration.. that there were absolutely no qualms whatsoever on English MP's voting on purely scottish issues. I'll quote the poll tax for just one of them.

Honestly, it's a little bit hysterical all this 'cut the Scot's loose, English votes for English issues' thing. You were quite happy when things were the other way round ? I paid a year's more poll tax than you because of it.:think:

Things have never "been the other way round". Under the last Tory administration, all UK MPs voted on legislation no matter who it affected. That may have meant that sometimes English MPs voted on Scottish matters, but so also did Scottish MPs vote on English matters. (And the poll tax was introduced by Scottish Tories - that's why it was introduced in Scotland first.)

The demand for "English votes for English laws" has only come about because devolution has meant that Scots already have "Scottish votes for Scottish laws". The English want the same thing, that's all. If we undid devolution and had all UK MPs voting on Scottish legislation, then I would certainly be happy for all UK MPs to vote on English legislation.

And yes, there are another two devolved parliaments. The Welsh Assembly has much less autonomy than the Scottish parliament, but, far from just picking on the Scots all the time, I have mentioned it several times, and indeed said that in order to make the system fair it might be necessary to rationalise things so that they got the same level of powers as the Scottish Parliament. I'm afraid I know that I don't know enough about Stormont to say much about it, but I have mentioned it.

lilac_lady

ruggedtoast wrote: »

However much the Scots hate the English they are far too tight to vote for independence.

The only way to get them to leave voluntarily is to charge some kind of membership fee for a place in the union.

Why don't you campaign for an English Parliament? A no fee entry of course.

Alan_Cross

The Little Englanders are out in force, it seems.

Never mind.

Even the English sometimes allow intelligence to prevail over bloody-minded self interest. At such times they elect a Labour Government which has to sort out the hospital corridor trolley, leaking school roof etc syndromes.

The Tory toffs ride out all times with their Harley Street and Eton connections. Seriously, they must be giggling behind their hands at the way they manage to con so many people of modest means into voting for them. I've actually seen this laughter going on in constituency offices.

I hope the Lib Dems make the most of enjoying their sordid, little brush with Tory-controlled power. It will not last long and soon see them reduced to the ineffectual rump of Joe Grimond days as the public sees though it.

Alan_Cross

new_home_owner wrote: »

yeah likewise the english people have been ruled by a labour government which mainly have seats in scotland and wales and we have had that for the last 13 years, you have had it for a few hours and your moaning.

heres the map of the last election in 2005, how can us has english people let the people of scotland and wales who keep on bleating about indipendance dictate who rules are country. No wonder they all voted labour free prescription and higher funds for university places.

And it is this level of intelligence which has generally been led by the nose to vote for the toffs.

rosa_luxembourg

LydiaJ wrote: »

As for Clegg and his mixed European ancestry - it doesn't make any difference to me where his parents and grandparents came from. It was just that since there's been discussion about it in various papers recently, I was aware that just to describe him as English wouldn't be entirely accurate. I've always had a problem with simplifying things if it compromises the accuracy - I need to get over it maybe.

Similarly, then, to describe Dave as English wouldn't be entirely accurate.

dunstonh

For all the rhetoric from Alex Salmond about an independent Scotland being what they want, he knows its not possible. England has around 85% of the population of the UK. Yet the tax revenue distributions are such that Scotland gets more per head. Scotland would have to raise taxes to cover that difference as well as contribute towards the armed forces and other things that are currently costed over the wider UK (and mainly England).

Plus, would Scotland have been able to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland? Remember it was the fact that Scotland went bankrupt before that led to the union. We cant keep bailing Scotland out every time one of their companies (or trade/colonisation missions) goes wrong.

rosa_luxembourg

dunstonh wrote: »

For all the rhetoric from Alex Salmond about an independent Scotland being what they want, he knows its not possible. England has around 85% of the population of the UK. Yet the tax revenue distributions are such that Scotland gets more per head. Scotland would have to raise taxes to cover that difference as well as contribute towards the armed forces and other things that are currently costed over the wider UK (and mainly England).

Plus, would Scotland have been able to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland? Remember it was the fact that Scotland went bankrupt before that led to the union. We cant keep bailing Scotland out every time one of their companies (or trade/colonisation missions) goes wrong.

So, what are you saying? The first part of your post seems to be putting forward an argument against Scottish independence. Yet the final sentence seems to conclude that Scotland should look after its own business.