Can I still Reclaim?

BonusBonny

Hi

I sent letter to my bank (The Royal Bank of Scotland) August last year asking them to refund my bank charges - they responded telling me they won't refund. I followed it up with a second letter and then they sent me a response telling me my complaint had been put on hold due to the test case.

In January they sent me another letter stating that the test case had given them no reason to refund my charges and give me 8 weeks to reply before they would consider my complaint resolved.

I didn't respond thinking it was over.

I have checked back and people are still reclaiming and ultimately I am wondering if I could still pursue my claim even if I did not respond within 8 weeks, possibly starting a new complaint or trying to continue the old one, ignoring their deadline. Is it still something I can consider to do this?

I am willing to take the bank to court if necessary but would prefer to use the FOS although from what I read it seems to be only favourable if a person is in financial hardship - is this right? I ask because my outgoings are under my incoming, therefor I don't consider myself in financial hardship currently. Can financial hardship be considered in the past tense - I was in financial hardship for many years when the charges accrued, often charges upon unpain charges, would this be possible to claim stating financial hardship for the period of time when I built up these charges?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

natweststaffmember

BonusBonny wrote: »

Hi

I sent letter to my bank (The Royal Bank of Scotland) August last year asking them to refund my bank charges - they responded telling me they won't refund. I followed it up with a second letter and then they sent me a response telling me my complaint had been put on hold due to the test case.

In January they sent me another letter stating that the test case had given them no reason to refund my charges and give me 8 weeks to reply before they would consider my complaint resolved.

I didn't respond thinking it was over.

I have checked back and people are still reclaiming and ultimately I am wondering if I could still pursue my claim even if I did not respond within 8 weeks, possibly starting a new complaint or trying to continue the old one, ignoring their deadline. Is it still something I can consider to do this?
Yes you can and you can start a new claim.
I am willing to take the bank to court if necessary but would prefer to use the FOS although from what I read it seems to be only favourable if a person is in financial hardship - is this right?
That is correct at the moment and any financial hardship claim MUST be realistically based on the timescale of when you were in financial harship. It may not lead to 100% of the charges back as banks do not even have to refund 1p under financial hardship.
I ask because my outgoings are under my incoming, therefor I don't consider myself in financial hardship currently. Can financial hardship be considered in the past tense - I was in financial hardship for many years when the charges accrued, often charges upon unpain charges, would this be possible to claim stating financial hardship for the period of time when I built up these charges?
historic financial hardship is difficult to prove unless you can prove the bank did nothing to help you at the time.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

see above......

Premier_2

I doubt they'll re-open the claim. They gave you the option to continue, but you failed to do so, and so I see no reason why they wouldn't have simply considered the complaint resolved as they said they would.

You could, of course, start a new claim.

Read & understand the MSE articles on reclaiming bank charges
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/bank-charges
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/oft-bank-charges

Decide which routes are open to you. These links about financial hardship should clarify further whether that route is open to you.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2428497

You may have read that many people are still claiming, but ask youserlf how many banks are simply paying up without any dispute.
This is because according to a recent report, only 5% of those who complain to their bank appear to take the matter further if unsuccessful.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/banking/2010/04/consumers-urged-to-take-action-after-banks-complaint-handling-slammed

Remember, that as per the above MSE articles, the FOS will not consider claims for bank charges based on legalese. Even if you do manage to convince them of financial hardship, there is no guarantee they will award you a refund of charges.

I see you claim you are prepared to take this to court. Again, as per the above MSE articles, I must advise that the proposed legal arguements suggested are unproven. See also the comments on the possibility of incurring huge legal costs if you are to pursue this route.
Now some may say that the legal arguements have not even been tested. Ask yourself why. What can be certain is that if any court in this land had paid out based on the legal arguments, legal arguements that may only have been published on this site since February but which have existed for much longer, it would be referred to not only on this site, but on numerous consumer sites across the internet. But if you want to go ahead and make a name for yourself being the first to win such a legal challenge, the MSE article tells you how to do so (even if it doesn't promise you you'll win).

Alpine_Star

Premier wrote: »

.
Now some may say that the legal arguements have not even been tested. Ask yourself why. .

Could it be because you've put everyone off claiming? Or is it perhaps that of all the hearings scheduled to test the new arguments none have been heard yet?

natweststaffmember

Premier wrote: »

I doubt they'll re-open the claim. They gave you the option to continue, but you failed to do so, and so I see no reason why they wouldn't have simply considered the complaint resolved as they said they would.

You could, of course, start a new claim.

Read & understand the MSE articles on reclaiming bank charges
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/bank-charges
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/oft-bank-charges

Decide which routes are open to you. These links about financial hardship should clarify further whether that route is open to you.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2428497

You may have read that many people are still claiming, but ask youserlf how many banks are simply paying up without any dispute.
This is because according to a recent report, only 5% of those who complain to their bank appear to take the matter further if unsuccessful.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/banking/2010/04/consumers-urged-to-take-action-after-banks-complaint-handling-slammed

Remember, that as per the above MSE articles, the FOS will not consider claims for bank charges based on legalese. Even if you do manage to convince them of financial hardship, there is no guarantee they will award you a refund of charges.

I see you claim you are prepared to take this to court. Again, as per the above MSE articles, I must advise that the proposed legal arguements suggested are unproven. See also the comments on the possibility of incurring huge legal costs if you are to pursue this route.
Now some may say that the legal arguements have not even been tested. Ask yourself why. What can be certain is that if any court in this land had paid out based on the legal arguments, legal arguements that may only have been published on this site since February but which have existed for much longer, it would be referred to not only on this site, but on numerous consumer sites across the internet. But if you want to go ahead and make a name for yourself being the first to win such a legal challenge, the MSE article tells you how to do so (even if it doesn't promise you you'll win).

UTCCR 1999 Regulation 5(1) was tested in Court and Justice Andrew Smith declined the declaration.
Source: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/personal-current-accounts/Bank-charge-judgment.pdf
Paragraphs 437-448

This specific part of the first judgement was never appealed by the banks. That lead to the appeal and house of lords case which dealt with a collective challenge based on price/level and excessiveness which the banks won. A collective challenge cannot be made but one can be made by an individual

BonusBonny

Thank you - your help is much appreciated!
I think I may start the process again, send the first letter, advise them that I would to be refunded those charges. They more than likely won't - I'll send a second letter giving them another chance to reconsider before taking them to court and advise them of what grounds I think the court may rule in my favour.

I'll see what their response is to the second again before making the decision to ultimately take them to court or not.

I have nothing to lose (at this point).
Thanks again!

natweststaffmember

BonusBonny wrote: »

Thank you - your help is much appreciated!
I think I may start the process again, send the first letter, advise them that I would to be refunded those charges. They more than likely won't - I'll send a second letter giving them another chance to reconsider before taking them to court and advise them of what grounds I think the court may rule in my favour.

I'll see what their response is to the second again before making the decision to ultimately take them to court or not.

I have nothing to lose (at this point).
Thanks again!

Make sure you do not argue the level of the charges or that they are excessive. You need to read as much info as possible across the bank charges forums as MSE is not the only one.

Premier_2

natweststaffmember wrote: »

... A collective challenge cannot be made but one can be made by an individual

But the point is, it never has been, at least not successfully

That article you linked to was dated April 2008 - you'd have thought someone would have done so by now if there was any real chance of success, and as I said, if it ever is successful, it'll surely set the consumer forums across the internet on fire.

natweststaffmember

Premier wrote: »

But the point is, it never has been, at least not successfully

That article you linked to was dated April 2008 - you'd have thought someone would have done so by now if there was any real chance of success, and as I said, if it ever is successful, it'll surely set the consumer forums across the internet on fire.

Ok Premier, did you read the title of that link?
It was the OFT test case first decision prior to the appeals. Furthermore, the Supreme Court decision was in November 2009 which as I am sure, if memory serves me right, about the time you turned up on the reclaims forums(yes sometimes I do check these things). The assumption was that the OFT would take the lead in further attempts which in December 2009 they chose not to do. Martin then said, I'll pay for a QC to look at the arguments which lead to your quoted guide(you know the score on that cos it happened). Glad you didn't pick me up on the Berwick case btw cos technically you could have a case where a consumer lost in court before the OFT test case(but as you keep reminding everyone, it was not in a precedent setting level). As you can imagine, there has been many discussions on all the forums about the OFT test case and the decision. I guess my question to you is simply this, where are the cases where people have lost in court based on the new arguments? Are there any that you are aware of cos neither am I? In fact in June(oooh less than 4 weeks away) we can have a good argument about the Govern Law Centre case, sharp v. Bank of Scotland which is going to court. You are aware that the OFT test case announcement was in July 2007 and did not start until January 2008 which was 6 months later. So Govern Law Centre is going to court 6 months and a bit after the final decision. Things take time as we both say from time to time. If they win, you gonna play the precedent setting card again?

Premier_2

Unlike some, I'm not here to "pick people up" on what they post, more to give advice to those seeking it

But glad to see we are agreed that the legal arguement has never been successfully used in court yet.
(and I've already pointed the OP in the direction of the MSE article which whilst explaining how to make such a claim also suggests anyone attempting it should consider also the financial risks involved in so doing)

Alpine_Star

Premier wrote: »

That article you linked to was dated April 2008 - you'd have thought someone would have done so by now if there was any real chance of success, .

Yes you would have thought that if you were unaware that all bank charges cases were stayed from before April 2008 until recently.