Dispusted Cash Withdrawal from Santander ATMs in Spain - Beware

SmellyWelly

On a recent visit to Spain last year, I twice attempted to withdraw cash from different Santander ATMs in Barcelona. On both occasions, the ATM told me that Santander would be charging an additional 2% commission for the withdrawal and gave me the option to "proceed" or "cancel". Knowing that I would be able to withdraw cash from other banks' ATMs without any commission using my Nationwide card, I chose to cancel the transaction and source my cash from elsewhere.

When I checked my account balance online, I found that the Santander withdrawals had been debited from my account, despite the fact that I had cancelled the transaction and never received any cash. Neither amount included the 2% commission that the ATM claimed would be applied to the transaction. I reported this immediately to Nationwide who refunded the money for both transactions and started investigating the disputed cash withdrawals. Santander have provided an audit roll to Nationwide indicating that they think that one of the transactions (for €300) was carried out successfully, and Nationwide have debited my account by the refunded amount for that transaction. The other disputed transaction (for €200) has been upheld and I have kept the refunded amount.

Nationwide have informed me that, under the Visa rules and regulations, they are unable to pursue Santander any further and I am stuck on my own trying to recover the €300 that I never received from the ATM. The fact that I experienced the same thing at two different ATMs from the same well-known bank makes me extremely suspicious; the fact that one of the disputed transactions has been upheld makes me doubly so and the fact that the 2% commission does not appear on the debited amount baffles me. I now feel utterly stuck and am not sure what I can do to recover my money. It seems to me that my next port of call might be to take up this issue with Santander directly, but I'm not convinced that I'll make any headway if I just go into my local branch. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Has anyone else had similar trouble with Santander ATMs in Spain? The transactions were in late December 2009 and the ATMs in question were in the airport in Barcelona and along the Gran Via. Needless to say, I shall be avoiding all Spanish Santander ATMs in future!

Premier_2

Disputing a withdrawal from an ATM is like disputing a cashier has only given you change for a tenner when you claim to have provided a £50 note.

The ATM (like a till) is checked to see if the amount remaining matches what should still be there.

If the ATM had not dispensed the €300, then the ATM would be €300 up on the money it should have left.

SmellyWelly

Yes, I realise that, which makes me wonder if it is possible that there is something a bit more sinister going on. I simply cannot understand why Santander's records should show that the ATM balance was correct when I did not get any money at all.

I know I didn't receive the money, and I can't believe that I'm just supposed to sit back and accept the loss of €300. I can't help but think that something is very wrong because not only did this happen twice at different ATMs, but also the amount debited from my account did not include any trace of the 2% commission. There must be something that I can do!

PC_Gabriel_Kent

Nationwide will have to pursue it for you. Santander UK branches have no sway in the matter so they will be unlikely to be able to do anything, notwithstanding the fact you bank with another bank.

natweststaffmember

SmellyWelly wrote: »

Yes, I realise that, which makes me wonder if it is possible that there is something a bit more sinister going on. I simply cannot understand why Santander's records should show that the ATM balance was correct when I did not get any money at all.

I know I didn't receive the money, and I can't believe that I'm just supposed to sit back and accept the loss of €300. I can't help but think that something is very wrong because not only did this happen twice at different ATMs, but also the amount debited from my account did not include any trace of the 2% commission. There must be something that I can do!

You should be able to complete a form similar to an ATM dispute form for UK cash points. From vague memory I think you have to do it within 6 months of the transaction but I agree totally with what has already been said.

SmellyWelly

natweststaffmember wrote: »

You should be able to complete a form similar to an ATM dispute form for UK cash points.

I've believe that I've already filed an ATM dispute (which is how Nationwide got Santander to provide the audit roll of the ATM in question). What I don't understand is how the audit roll could possibly balance up when I did not receive €300. Nationwide have told me that they can't pursue Santander any further and that I'm now on my own. Surely there is something else I can do?

Premier_2

SmellyWelly wrote: »

I've believe that I've already filed an ATM dispute (which is how Nationwide got Santander to provide the audit roll of the ATM in question). What I don't understand is how the audit roll could possibly balance up when I did not receive €300. Nationwide have told me that they can't pursue Santander any further and that I'm now on my own. Surely there is something else I can do?

Well there's 4 ways that could happpen

1. The ATM remaining cash didn't stack up and the bank falsified the records to keep what is to them (though not to you) a measely €300 . ... Very unlikely.

2. The ATM remaining cash didn't stackup, but the person checking found the extra €300 and poocketed it... Unlikely. There will be security processes in place to prevent this.

3. The ATM remaining cash did stack up because by coincidence it was erroneously loaded with €300 less than it should have been. ... Extremely unlikely.

3. The ATM remaining cash did stack up because the ATM gave out the cash... Likely, although the cash may not have been dispensed when you were at the ATM, and whoever took it didn't hand it in (or as has occured previously in this country, tried to, but was advised to keep it as it was too much form filling for the bank staff to bother with processing :eek:)

natweststaffmember

Premier, mate, point 3 and then point 4

I would think 4 might be likely without reference to the bank.

SmellyWelly

Premier wrote: »

3. The ATM remaining cash did stack up because the ATM gave out the cash... Likely, although the cash may not have been dispensed when you were at the ATM, and whoever took it didn't hand it in (or as has occured previously in this country, tried to, but was advised to keep it as it was too much form filling for the bank staff to bother with processing :eek:)

If this really did happen, then is there nothing else I can do to recover the €300? This happened in an airport, so there is potentially some CCTV coverage, but I have no idea who to approach to help investigate further.

Does anyone have any comments about the other issue of the misleading software in the ATM? Why say you are going to charge 2% commission, when the actual amount debited does not include this? Why does "cancel" mean "please debit my account, but don't dispense any money"? The fact that this happened in 2 different ATMs suggests that it would probably happen at all Santander ATMs (I can't believe they program them individually!). This is software usability at its very worse, not to mention a heinous bug.

dzug1

I would guess the 2% commission is buried in the exchange rate they gave you

Your option (if it really is an option) is to appoint a Spanish lawyer to gather evidence and pursue the cas on your behalf - expensive with a low chance of success

Premier_2

To add to dzug1's post which I fully agree with, if you just want your €300 back, you will need to identify and pursue the individual who took it.

If you wanted to pursue Santander, you'd have to prove there was an inherent fault (or bug as you call it) within their system, and that they were negligent, so you possibly need to also prove they know about the fault. Probably even less likely than the low chance of successfully identifying & pursuing the person who took your specific money.
Remember, this would probably all fall under some foreign law and would need to be heard in a foreign court - probably in Spain I would think, hence the suggestion to employ a Spanish lawyer.

In the circumstances, my advice would be to put the loss down to experience.

In future, my suggestion would be to take the cash you anticipate you'll need with you and use a card to pay for the big bills like hotel accomodation, meals, etc.