DVLA medical - fitness to drive test? The answer to this will change my life!

far2812

Good idea babyshoes - I will add that to my list of things to check - I feel like a private investigator at the moment trying to suss all this out - I am getting there!

Any more ideas greatly appreciated. Thank you

gemmy26wales

sorry i cant offer you any help chick but i wish you all the best with your case. hopefully all will be resolved soon.

you know the truth..your previous tests have backed eachother up, plus you have previous encouters with your ex. im sure once everything is pieced together all will work out fine. just try to keep positive. when you know your right about something, it can give you the mindset that you need xxx

atrixblue.-MFR-.

maybe irellavant but do you use a mouthwash? regarly! if so this may give a positive result! mouthwash contains alchohol! if you brush then rinse with mouth wash three times a day then this can up your alchohol levels in the blood. or chew chewing gum allot! also if your cortison injections are sprayed with numbing spray first that may also contain alchohol and absorbed through skin into blood. not to mention that some hair shampoos will contain alchohol!

far2812

Thanks gemmy and atrix - what also gets me is how many other people has this happened too? I am fortunate in that I can afford to fight this (although it is an unnecessary waste of money and I shouldnt have to prove it but I will).

This COULD potentially change the mindset of the Court, the DVLA and the hair strand testing companies.

My best friend is a genius and is sending through an email with all the test breakdowns etc. of the test results.

If anyone is interested or can shed light on any of it - I will post it on here x

alleycat`

A bit of a read around suggests the following:-

Blood alcohol tests are more accurate than hair alcohol tests but (and this might be an issue for you) the blood test is not as reliable (for a longer term result) as a hair test is.

I assume that the reason for this is that hair is essentially dead and whatever is in it stays in it.

Blood on the other hand is constantly getting cleaned by the liver/kidneys and in effect replaced all the time by the body.

This site was an interesting read (did they use the FAEE method to test your hair or the Etg method?)
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http://www.consumergenetics.com/hair-alcohol/hair-alcohol-faqs.php
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This one also highlights how the ETg test can be seriously skewed by contaminants in cleaning products, creams, etc.
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http://alcoholism.about.com/od/work/a/etg.htm
--

Also did they use a single hair or multiple hairs (everything I've read suggests a single hair is not suitable).

Obviously this is personal to you so i don't expect a reply as such just pointing out some obvious things you could query.

far2812

Hi Allycat - brilliant. No I am very grateful for you trying to help me and will answer whatever I can.

they used FAEE method and ETG as far as I am aware but can check it - does this make a difference.

They took a whole chuck of hair.............

Does that help you?

alleycat`

Hi far,

Reading how the tests should work suggests they have to use multiple hairs and none of the hairs can be shorter than 1/2" or longer than 1".

The tests are now recommended to be done with the FAEE method for accuracy and reduction in the potential for false positives.

Any tests done using Etg (which is a more sensitive test) can be skewed to false positive due to a persons exposure to household cleaning products, skin creams and quite a lot of "other" common factors.

On this basis the Etg test should not currently be used as a "single" method of judging someones alcohol use but it can be used as a secondary indicator to back up other tests.

My opinion, not that it is worth much as i am not an expert, is that i can't see how the positive hair test would stand up.

It takes up to 56 days for the alcohol to get from the follicle into the hair (at a length that would be usable) and on that basis the "drinking" would directly overlap with the more accurate blood alcohol test in February.

From a purely clinical standpoint the blood test seems to be "the test" that currently trumps all others for accuracy and should therefore supercede the hair test (in my mind).

The hair test seems to be used as a good indicator of longer term drinking (assuming you don't cut your hair short) but it is only really used as the blood test is more expensive and is more "intrusive".

As for the why it has come back positive:-

I can't find any material that suggests medication causes a false positive test for alcohol but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Have the testing lab shown any material that is currently published / peer reviewed that shows your medication type does not cause an adverse result?

If they don't have that evidence then you could perhaps suggest that blood testing is done in future?

It is a more expensive and intrusive test but i'd find it hard for any judge to not think you were taking this seriously if you are offering to be judged against a "higher standard" test.

far2812

Alley - you're brilliant - I cannot believe someone is helping me and taking this on board. I REALLY do appreciate your help in the research of this.

Brilliant point about the 56 day period!!

In a 4 tests (3 hair and 1 DVLA) - they ALL took my bloods - and in all but ONE occasion (matching the postivie alcohol hair test) - they are "normal".

Apart from all the cortisone injections, I am taking microgynon and citalopram daily.

How would I find out about the testing lab published material?

The hair strand testing is costing me £900 per time!

I certainly owe you a gift of some kind which I will sort out with you later

Again, I cannot express my thanks enough.

Fiona

alleycat`

Hi Far,

I'm starting to get a bit out of my depth with what else i can offer.

I can't find any reading that specifically suggests that cortisone, birth control or anti depressants can cause a FAEE false positive result.
There is quite a lot of information that suggests pain killers can be mistaken for other drugs such a heroin abuse but nothing specific to alcohol.

I'll add here that i was unclear if the citalopram was for pain control, with regards to the neck problems you have (low dose), or depression (which would be a higher dose). In the end it didn't matter as i couldn't find any match with it and FAEE tests but it doesn't mean that this may not be a line of enquiry for your solicitor / doctor.

However, on one the testing labs websites i've looked at it does have a Q and A (i appreciate that your medicines are not exactly over the counter):-

Quote:-

Q:- Can over-the-counter medications produce positive results in a hair test?

A:- Enzymes-immunoassay antibodies (EIA), similar to those used to test urine, are used for the initial screening test for drugs of abuse in hair; therefore the potential for substances such as over-the-counter medications to cause a false positive screening result does exist. To eliminate the possibility of reporting a false-positive due to cross-reactivity, (company name deleted) confirms all positive results by GC/MS for methamphetamine, opiates, PCP, cocaine and cannabis.

End Quote.

My questions would be (to the lab).

Was your 3rd hair test result checked against a Gas Chromatography (GC) and Mass Spectrometer (MS)?

This question may not be valid for an alcohol test (as FAEE is a primary metabolite of alcohol) but it would show if the testing lab had done a full "belts and braces" check to at least show some willing on their part to eliminate other factors (such as pain medications).

How do the lab currently explain away their test compared to previous tests that directly overlap with their results?

Personally, I also have to say i would expect a laboratory that is charging you £900 should be able to produce some peer reviewed papers that show their testing is not impacted by the medication you are on. At the very least they need to show that secondary tests were undertaken to confirm their result (especially when it directly contradicts previous tests - that their results overlap).

You might also want to query if any changes have occured in testing between the 2009 test they performed and the 2010 test they performed.

O and you don't owe me anything.

In many ways the reading is quite interesting.
I hope you manage to sort out whatever troubles you have

far2812

Thanks Allycat - I will ring the company tomorrow and see what I can find out xx Will let you know x Thanks again