Just wondering if I am right re renting/giving notice..

emmylou69

Hi everyone,
I would be very grateful if someone who knows their stuff would have a look at this wording and tell me if I am correct in what I am thinking.

We are intending to give notice soon on our rented property. We signed a 12 month contract on 4th Sept 2009 but asked for a break clause at 6 months.
The wording that was added to what we signed reads as follows:

Notwithstanding the fixed term of this agreement as stated at point 4 of the Tenancy Particulars [this says 12 months] the Parties agree that the Tenant shall have the right to terminate this agreement prior to the expiry of the said term by giving the Landlord not less than two months' written notice PROVIDED THAT both the following conditions are satisfied:

a) this right cannot be exercised by the Tenant to terminate the agreement on any date falling before the expiry of four months from the term commencement date of this agreement

b) the Tenant has paid the rent or any other amount due under this agreement up to the date that the agreement expires in accordance with a notice served in accordance with this clause

At the expiry of a notice served under this clause this agreement will be determined absolutely but such determination shall be without prejudice to the rights of either party against the other in respect of any outstanding rent or other amount due or other breach of the terms of this agreement which has occurred before the end of the agreement.

If a notice under this clause takes effect on a date which is not on the last day of a monthly period of this agreement the obligation to pay rent will cease on the termination date and the rent payment will be apportioned accordingly.

Am I correct in thinking that we can give notice now to end the tenancy early, provided we give two months' notice? And if we were to give notice on the 14th May we could leave on the 14th July rather than have to wait until the end of August? ie it is a straight two months and ignores the date on which rent is payable.
Also, if we want to leave at the end of the fixed term ie 3rd Sept 2010 do we need to give notice at all or is it just assumed that we will leave if we do not renew?

Any advice gratefully received before I go and make an offer on a property to buy

Em

pyueck

emmylou69 wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I would be very grateful if someone who knows their stuff would have a look at this wording and tell me if I am correct in what I am thinking.

We are intending to give notice soon on our rented property. We signed a 12 month contract on 4th Sept 2009 but asked for a break clause at 6 months.
The wording that was added to what we signed reads as follows:

Notwithstanding the fixed term of this agreement as stated at point 4 of the Tenancy Particulars [this says 12 months] the Parties agree that the Tenant shall have the right to terminate this agreement prior to the expiry of the said term by giving the Landlord not less than two months' written notice PROVIDED THAT both the following conditions are satisfied:

a) this right cannot be exercised by the Tenant to terminate the agreement on any date falling before the expiry of four months from the term commencement date of this agreement

b) the Tenant has paid the rent or any other amount due under this agreement up to the date that the agreement expires in accordance with a notice served in accordance with this clause

At the expiry of a notice served under this clause this agreement will be determined absolutely but such determination shall be without prejudice to the rights of either party against the other in respect of any outstanding rent or other amount due or other breach of the terms of this agreement which has occurred before the end of the agreement.

If a notice under this clause takes effect on a date which is not on the last day of a monthly period of this agreement the obligation to pay rent will cease on the termination date and the rent payment will be apportioned accordingly.

Am I correct in thinking that we can give notice now to end the tenancy early, provided we give two months' notice? And if we were to give notice on the 14th May we could leave on the 14th July rather than have to wait until the end of August? ie it is a straight two months and ignores the date on which rent is payable.
Also, if we want to leave at the end of the fixed term ie 3rd Sept 2010 do we need to give notice at all or is it just assumed that we will leave if we do not renew?

Any advice gratefully received before I go and make an offer on a property to buy

Em

Yes you should be able to leave on whatever date you choose, so long as you give two months notice. Try and send it recorded delivery, plus follow it up with an e-mail, and keep a copy. Ideally get the landlord to sign your letter to say that you are leaving. This is to avoid the landlord turning round in two months and saying 'what letter'.

At the end of the tenancy your tenancy will become a periodic tenancy, which basically means it rolls on as is until either party breaks it. It can be broken by:

Tenant
* The notice must be in writing
* It must be delivered at least 4 weeks before the notice period ends or 1 month if rent is paid monthly
* It must bring the tenancy to an end at the end of a full rent period.

Landlord
* Section 21 giving two months notice. If the tenant does not move out then the landlord must obtain a posession order from the court and then a bailiff's order if they don't move out by the end of the posession order to actually evict them.

As you can see, based on your contracts wording you should be able to give two months notice before the tenancy ends, and be able to end it on any chosen day, once the tenancy expires you must give 1 months notice, ending a months after your last rental payment.

emmylou69

Thank you Pyueck for a quick an comprehensive answer :-)

On the original agreement letter from the agent (it was let through an agent but not managed by them) they say that if we want to stay beyond the 12 months we need to sign a new 12 month agreement and pay further fees to them for renewal. I had thought that it would automatically revert to a periodic tenancy if we stayed over 12 months. If we do not move out before the end of our tenancy can we refuse to sign a new contract and insist it goes periodic? Presumably if they did not agree they would need to give us notice?

And just to confirm, if I want to leave on the last day of the initial 12 month term do I need to give notice in advance or does the contract finish then anyway?

Thank you :-)

pyueck

emmylou69 wrote: »

Thank you Pyueck for a quick an comprehensive answer :-)

On the original agreement letter from the agent (it was let through an agent but not managed by them) they say that if we want to stay beyond the 12 months we need to sign a new 12 month agreement and pay further fees to them for renewal. I had thought that it would automatically revert to a periodic tenancy if we stayed over 12 months. If we do not move out before the end of our tenancy can we refuse to sign a new contract and insist it goes periodic? Presumably if they did not agree they would need to give us notice?

And just to confirm, if I want to leave on the last day of the initial 12 month term do I need to give notice in advance or does the contract finish then anyway?

Thank you :-)

If you want to leave on the last day of the term you need to give one months notice.

The tenancy will automatically turn into a periodic tenancy after the end of the tenancy and the landlord must give you two months notice to move out with a section 21. The landlord or agent cannot insist on you signing a new contract, but clearly if you don't they could decide to send you a section 21 and end you tenancy. This is though unlikely as the landlord would need to find a new tenant, but an agent may not mind as they make a lot of money from charging new agency fees to any new tenant, and more fees again to the landlord.

The landlord/agent could send you a section 21 before your term ends, which expires on the last day of the contract, therefore leaving you no option but to renew or leave. Thats why I wouldn't enter into a conversation with the landlord or agent about whether you will sign a new agreement or not, as they might send you a section 21 if you say you wont sign a new agreement.

Also watch out, some landlords and agents stick a s21 into your original tenancy agreement, and means that you may have already been served a section 21. Despite these being not really enforcable, due to your deposit not being protected when the section 21 is served (contrary to the housing act 2004), it is not very nice being told you have to move out on a certain date and then staying in your property.

emmylou69

Thank you, fantastic info, much appreciated :-)

lizzielondon

pyueck wrote: »

If you want to leave on the last day of the term you need to give one months notice.

The tenancy will automatically turn into a periodic tenancy after the end of the tenancy and the landlord must give you two months notice to move out with a section 21. The landlord or agent cannot insist on you signing a new contract, but clearly if you don't they could decide to send you a section 21 and end you tenancy. This is though unlikely as the landlord would need to find a new tenant, but an agent may not mind as they make a lot of money from charging new agency fees to any new tenant, and more fees again to the landlord.

The landlord/agent could send you a section 21 before your term ends, which expires on the last day of the contract, therefore leaving you no option but to renew or leave. Thats why I wouldn't enter into a conversation with the landlord or agent about whether you will sign a new agreement or not, as they might send you a section 21 if you say you wont sign a new agreement.

Also watch out, some landlords and agents stick a s21 into your original tenancy agreement, and means that you may have already been served a section 21. Despite these being not really enforcable, due to your deposit not being protected when the section 21 is served (contrary to the housing act 2004), it is not very nice being told you have to move out on a certain date and then staying in your property.

if you want to leave on the last day of a fixed term you don't have to give any notice ?

tbs624

pyueck wrote: »

If you want to leave on the last day of the term you need to give one months notice.

If the OP wishes to leave at theoriginal Fixed Term expiry date then no notice is required to do so ( in E/Wales - for Scottish Ts check for tacit relocation) It is however courteous to notify your LL and tend s to speed up references/deposit return etc.

pyueck wrote: »

The tenancy will automatically turn into a periodic tenancy after the end of the tenancy and the landlord must give you two months notice to move out with a section 21. The landlord or agent cannot insist on you signing a new contract, but clearly if you don't they could decide to send you a section 21 and end you tenancy. This is though unlikely as the landlord would need to find a new tenant, but an agent may not mind as they make a lot of money from charging new agency fees to any new tenant, and more fees again to the landlord.

Maybe the LL has a new T lined up if you failed to confirm your own intentions? Some LLs are quite happy to serve notice & get someone new in and don't forget that it is in your interest as a T to not have to move, not least because of the costs which you are likely to occur in finding a new place.at a similar rent..

pyueck wrote: »

The landlord/agent could send you a section 21 before your term ends, which expires on the last day of the contract, therefore leaving you no option but to renew or leave. Thats why I wouldn't enter into a conversation with the landlord or agent about whether you will sign a new agreement or not, as they might send you a section 21 if you say you wont sign a new agreement.

Here we go with pyeuck's one-sided view of fairness within a LL & T relationship.Don't discuss it and just sit there and you are quite likely to get a S21 served pronto, if one has not already been delivered. No good complaining about Ts not knowing what's going on and then simultaneously suggesting that Ts keep their LLs in the dark

pyueck wrote: »

Also watch out, some landlords and agents stick a s21 into your original tenancy agreement, and means that you may have already been served a section 21. Despite these being not really enforcable, due to your deposit not being protected when the section 21 is served (contrary to the housing act 2004), it is not very nice being told you have to move out on a certain date and then staying in your property.

When most LLs serve a S21 early in the tenancy it is specifically given *after* the registration of the Tenancy deposit., which can be done online on the day.