Shared House/HIMO

Floating_Voter

I understand that any rented property containing a number of unrelated individuals is classed as a House in Multiple Occupation, and that the structural requirements and landlords obligations are considerable.

I also understand that a HIMO which contains several individually rented rooms needs planning permission.

But in the case of a single tenancy agreement with several signatories, eg a single large house rented jointly by a group of friends/students, is it necessary to get planning permission?

Are the structural requirements and landlords obligations identical in both situations?

bobby-boy_2

Hi Floating voter
a group of friends/ students renting a large house would come under an HMO license and all that entails.
You cant get round it by saying its a single tenancy signed by multiple people.
See previous threads.

Floating_Voter

bobby-boy wrote: »

Hi Floating voter
a group of friends/ students renting a large house would come under an HMO license and all that entails.
You cant get round it by saying its a single tenancy signed by multiple people.
See previous threads.

Thanks for your reply.

My question is mainly about the planning permission issue - I am sure that the vast majority of student houses in all our university/college towns are fully compliant with all the fire regulations etc etc, but did every single one of them have to obtain planning permission in order to be allowed to rent to a group of friends under a single tenancy contract?

bobby-boy_2

Hi Floating voter
I stay clear of HMO's due to all the extra legislation they involve.
I know that as part of the HMO license in Dundee they need planning permision, notices to neibours etc that it will be an HMO.
I think you need to check your local council web site as HMO conditions vary between councils.
Sorry I cant be mor ehelp.

planning_officer

A HMO falls within Use Class C4, which is a new Use Class introduced on 6 April 2010. So, only new proposals to change the use of a building into a HMO since that date require planning permission - if a HMO existed before 6 April, then it automatically falls under the new Use Class C4, and there's no need to apply retrospectively.

The same thing happened on 1 April 2005, when Use Class A3 was split into Classes A3, A4 and A5 (A3 was previously any catering establishment, and A3 is now a restaurant, A4 is a pub/bar, and A5 is a takeaway). For example, if a pub existed before the Classes were split up and had an A3 use, it was automatically classed as A4 following the changes - no need to apply, as it already had an established use).

Floating_Voter

planning_officer wrote: »

A HMO falls within Use Class C4, which is a new Use Class introduced on 6 April 2010. So, only new proposals to change the use of a building into a HMO since that date require planning permission - if a HMO existed before 6 April, then it automatically falls under the new Use Class C4, and there's no need to apply retrospectively.

The same thing happened on 1 April 2005, when Use Class A3 was split into Classes A3, A4 and A5 (A3 was previously any catering establishment, and A3 is now a restaurant, A4 is a pub/bar, and A5 is a takeaway). For example, if a pub existed before the Classes were split up and had an A3 use, it was automatically classed as A4 following the changes - no need to apply, as it already had an established use).

Thanks for the information.

If somebody is buying a place with more than one bedroom on a 'buy2let' mortgage, then it is quite likely that they will find themselves renting to a group of unrelated people doing a house share; that is to say that the house will need an HIMO licence, and that in turn means that planning permission will first have to be obtained.

The 'physical' requirements for the HIMO licence are clearly stated and, so long as a landlord does whatever is required to make the property compliant, then presumably an HIMO licence is unlikely to be refused.

But planning permission is less 'cut-and-dried', and is sometimes refused.

My concern is whether a 'buy2let' lender is likely to insist on planning permission having been obtained before making a mortgage offer. If that is the case, then what might be the costs and time delays?

I don't even know if it is permissible to apply for/obtain planning permission in connection with a property which is not already owned by the applicant.

I am reluctant to contact the council directly at this stage, nor any potential lenders, because there are some other unresolved complications, and, at this stage, I do not want to show up on anyone's radar screen....

ps - 'Bobby' said that he/she keeps clear of HIMOs because of all the regulations, but I don't understand how that is possible because any rented property with more than one bedroom is likely to come under the HIMO regs at some time or another.

PasturesNew

You don't have to own, or even live in, a place to apply for planning permission.

Not everywhere will be an HMO. You can have a 3-4 bed house and just rent it to families/couples, don't rent it to sharers.

Floating_Voter

PasturesNew wrote: »

Not everywhere will be an HMO. You can have a 3-4 bed house and just rent it to families/couples, don't rent it to sharers.

The trouble with that is that you cut out a large chunk of your potential customers, and might run a much greater risk of having an empty property

PasturesNew

Floating_Voter wrote: »

The trouble with that is that you cut out a large chunk of your potential customers, and might run a much greater risk of having an empty property

That's called business. That's your risk.
That's what you feed into your business plan.

Floating_Voter

PasturesNew wrote: »

That's called business. That's your risk.
That's what you feed into your business plan.

That's also why I would not bother to buy a property to rent unless I can be certain to be able to obtain an HIMO licence.

Planning_Officer said that the rules changed less than a month ago, and my concern is that BTL lenders will soon begin to require mortgage applicants to organise HIMO Planning Permission as a pre-condition to any mortgage offer being made.

The costs and delays which such a move would generate would have a significant impact on the BTL/Rental marketplace - and unless BTL purchasers can be certain that HIMO Planning Permission will be forthcoming, then they will have less incentive to invest.

Has it ever been known for a BTL lender to insist on planning consent being obtained before offering a BTL mortgage? Would a BTL lender be willing to accept a borrower's word that the property would only be let to a family group, and never to a group of 'sharers'?

00ec25

Floating_Voter wrote: »

Planning_Officer said that the rules changed less than a month ago, and my concern is that BTL lenders will soon begin to require mortgage applicants to organise HIMO Planning Permission as a pre-condition to any mortgage offer being made.

the law came in on 1 April 2010 so bit early to say what BLT lenders are going to do, however that is to an extent irrelevant since the correct approach to your business plan would be
1. read local plan on council web site to establish what planning zones exist in target area
2. research rental market in target area (HMO or non HMO planning zone)
3. identify property you are interested in
4. speak to council to get outline opinion on "your" property
5. find BTL funder

Floating_Voter wrote: »

The costs and delays which such a move would generate would have a significant impact on the BTL/Rental marketplace - and unless BTL purchasers can be certain that HIMO Planning Permission will be forthcoming, then they will have less incentive to invest..

that was the initial reaction from most LL when the bill was proposed, the assumption being it will be hard/impossible to get PP for a new HMO in an area the council has zoned as non HMO, therefore potentially meaning existing HMO can increase rent as there will be a relative shortage of new ones coming on via new PP

Floating_Voter wrote: »

Would a BTL lender be willing to accept a borrower's word that the property would only be let to a family group, and never to a group of 'sharers'?

The LL would be risking being prosecuted by the council for breach of planning so I would think most BLT lenders will expect the LL to be intending to run a legitimate rental business. But too early to tell what they might require in writing