Religion in schools?

peachyprice

Spendless wrote: »

I too, was surprised at the amount of religion in non-faith schools. I have similar views to the OP. By the time he was 9 my eldest said he was an atheist so just as well I never sent him to the church school.

But without the religious input from school he couldn't have come to that decision. You can't not believe in something until you know what it is. He received information, came to the conclusion that it wasn't for him for whatever reason and moved on.

I think many parents underestimate the sensibilities of their own children and just how capable they are of making up their own minds whether to believe in religion or not. But they need to make that decision themselves, not have it made for them by either school or parents beliefs.

I am an out and out atheist, my children have all gone through phases in believing or not believing in god. My DD goes to church parade with Brownies once a month, does it bother me? No. If she chooses to believe the stories they tell her that's is her decision alone. She knows my feelings and know she's free to express her own.

onlyroz

peachyprice wrote: »

But they need to make that decision themselves, not have it made for them by either school or parents beliefs.

Absolutely. I read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins - and he gets especially upset about people referring to a "Christian child". He says there's no such thing - only a "child of Christian parents". My parents left it to me to make my own mind up about religion, and I intend to leave it to my kids to make up their own minds as well. I just wasn't thinking that I'd have to deal with the sticky topic of God at such an early age. How can a 4-year-old possibly understand what they're being asked to do when they're told to join a teacher in prayer? At that age kids accept everything they're told at face-value, and it now seems like it's been left up to me to explain to a rather confused boy that not everybody believes that "God made us".

Indie_Kid

When I was in secondary school, we just learnt about Christianity. I got told off because a friend who is Jewish, was pretty much teaching me (and still - well, if I ask him why does he do this & that, he'll answer me) about Judaism.

Only difference being - he'd teach me - not force his beliefs upon me - school did that.

brians_daughter

onlyroz wrote: »

Absolutely. I read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins - and he gets especially upset about people referring to a "Christian child". He says there's no such thing - only a "child of Christian parents". QUOTE]

Fabulous book, IMO anyone and everyone should read this, if they can stick it out lol. Very informative (if not a tad 'ranty' in parts) it does give things for consideration.

itsallinthemind

bestpud wrote: »

My dd is 8 and understands she attends a church school and therefore follows that religion within school. She is aware that she can choose to believe or not and different religions worship differently. My aim is for her to make an informed choice rather than just follow me or take the schools word as gospel.

My older two didn't struggle to comprehend this either and came to their own conclusions.

Same with history lessons tbh - I often discuss how events can be interpreted differently and the view she is taught won't be the only one. I wouldn't dream of removing her from a history lesson so I'm not sure why I would an RE lesson.

It's all very simply put at this stage and I'd like to think my child would speak to me if she felt she was being asked to drink blood - that sounds scary! :eek:

Well that is good, she obviously is a very well adjusted girl at 8. I admire that you give your children the knowledge and freedoms to believe whatever they choose and to question everything. I certainly hope that my children feel that if they wish to pray to flossie the pony or believe in creationism, that they are free to. That's a difficult thing to do and I respect you greatly for it

However, I am horrified that children are expected to pray in non-denomination state schools and that children as young as 4 are having conversations about 'god' at school, surely RE lessons should only be taught at junior, not infant schooling?

itsallinthemind

brians_daughter wrote: »

Fabulous book, IMO anyone and everyone should read this, if they can stick it out lol. Very informative (if not a tad 'ranty' in parts) it does give things for consideration.

Yes, Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris do provide food for thought. However, they do forget there are christians who believe in evolution.

To me, the most unbiased and intellegent Atheist of our times is Stephen Fry. The Intellegence Squared Debate is worth a lookhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpGyHJZ9b0&feature=related (1 of 5) The final poll is quite something!

bestpud

itsallinthemind wrote: »

Well that is good, she obviously is a very well adjusted girl at 8. I admire that you give your children the knowledge and freedoms to believe whatever they choose and to question everything. I certainly hope that my children feel that if they wish to pray to flossie the pony or believe in creationism, that they are free to. That's a difficult thing to do and I respect you greatly for it

However, I am horrified that children are expected to pray in non-denomination state schools and that children as young as 4 are having conversations about 'god' at school, surely RE lessons should only be taught at junior, not infant schooling?

I think, for me, it is because I don't have a strong view about religion myself.

In fact I am quite confused about it due to things that have happened in the past and the differing ideas family members have passed down to me.

I can say for sure I don't believe in a God as such but I'm pretty open minded beyond that point.

I accept it is harder for people who have very definite views!

Spendless

peachyprice wrote: »

But without the religious input from school he couldn't have come to that decision. You can't not believe in something until you know what it is. He received information, came to the conclusion that it wasn't for him for whatever reason and moved on.

I think many parents underestimate the sensibilities of their own children and just how capable they are of making up their own minds whether to believe in religion or not. But they need to make that decision themselves, not have it made for them by either school or parents beliefs.

I am an out and out atheist, my children have all gone through phases in believing or not believing in god. My DD goes to church parade with Brownies once a month, does it bother me? No. If she chooses to believe the stories they tell her that's is her decision alone. She knows my feelings and know she's free to express her own.

I didn't say I was against religion in non-faith schools, just that I was surprised how much there was. We've just returned from watching him at a mini concert and at the end we were asked to pray to say thanks to God for the music. I am really surprised at that in a non-faith school, more so than celebrating religious festivals. I come from a 'surprised' angle rather than an 'annoyed' one. DS prayed to conform with hsi classmates and to do as told, but he doesn't believe, if school want him to say words to something that for him doesn't exist he'll go along.

My DD is the absolute opposite, she attends a church group and completely believes.

I have no problem with what either of them think.


I don't think DS's DS atheist stand comes from hearing a religious view and deciding it's not for him, more I'd say from having a scientific mind and documentaries on the Discovery channel. More that he does believe in science rather than he dismisses a religious view- if that makes any sense. So with no religious input from anyone but still having the same science in-put I believe he would have still hold the same view.

brians_daughter

itsallinthemind wrote: »

Yes, Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris do provide food for thought. However, they do forget there are christians who believe in evolution.

To me, the most unbiased and intellegent Atheist of our times is Stephen Fry. The Intellegence Squared Debate is worth a lookhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpGyHJZ9b0&feature=related (1 of 5) The final poll is quite something!

Cant do Hitchens personally - i have tried and tried, but i simply cant lol.

I have seen Fry speak previously and think he is very 'balanced' and for someone who wants a rounded view would be a good starting point.

I do get in quite heated debates with my ds about god, but in all fairness it is done in an educational way. He has such a strong faith, and although it isnt my personal belief he does cast a very good articulate argument, even at the age of 12! He recently got Baptised and we all attened to share his special day - it was wonderful that he was proclaiming his beliefs infront of friends and family. It was even more wonderful knowing that he had truely chosen this path himself without being indoctrinated by family/school ideologies. His faith has shown me what a great job i have done in allowing him to make choices and to respect others opinions/beliefs may differ to that of his own.

I think, what i am trying to say is that if we all give our children knowledge and information regarding others beliefs and cultures (if you dont know about the 'major' faiths in the UK then the library will have an abundance of children in mind texts that can educate both you and your child) By doing this we are equiping them in the best way we possibly can in order to allow them to arrive at their own conclusions, not just regarding faith but in life as a whole.

I do agree that 'telling' is not the right way to do things, but teaching is. If your child attends a faith school and you do not hold that belief then you should be equipped with the knowledge of what the school teaches regarding faith, this would have been available in the school information booklet provided by the school. I do understand that some of us have had to send our child to a faiths school due to factors such as distance and the likes, and maybe you should, in this instance speak with the school regarding your concerns.

noapron

I am a lapsed Catholic and decided at age 12 to stop going to mass on Sundays much to dad's disgust who from then on called me a heathen and did not approve when I married a strictly hatch, match and despatch non-RC. I was educated at a convent school so we did a great deal of religion - the priests came in for little talks and we had to go on retreats as well as have at least one mass a week in school. Needless to say we have not forced religion down dd's throat or even had her baptized (much disapproval from everyone because 'she won't be able to marry in church'!)

I think religion should be an entirely private matter and thus religious schools be private and no religion taught in state school.

At dd's secondary school there is no specific religion label but a half-course in RS is compulsory and tomorrow there is a half-day used for a service about the school's birthday. I don't withdraw her as all her year go and in particular all her mates, so I have no wish to mark her out. They are all bored rigid by it needless to say ...