Want my niece to come live with us, where to start?

hayley11

Bit of background.. my niece is 11 and lives with my older sister who is to be frank a complete waste of space, all she does is smoke cannabis and sleep. She gets money for my niece (child benefit, tax credits etc) but my niece doesn't see any of it, there's rarely any food in the house and what is in gets eaten by my sister and her boyfriend, her clothes aren't washed, my sister won't let her have a bath by herself (once when she was about 7 she fell, it was a total non event to be honest) because she says she's scared she'll drown so my niece can only have a bath when she sits with her but she can't ever be bothered so she bathes once a week if that. Her hair is full of nits but my sister won't do anything about it. My sister doesn't do anything for my niece, not a thing, she treats her like a complete slave and she doesn't know how to speak to her, only yell and swear. I could go on and on about the way she mistreats her but you get the picture.

It has been reported to social services several times but my niece has always been too scared to tell them anything (my sisters friends told her she would be taken away and wouldn't seen any of her family ever again) and social services themselves have told my mum they can't do anything because my sister wouldn't open the door. How awful is that?

Anyway my niece has now spoken up and told a teacher at school about how bad it is and said she doesn't want to live there anymore.

I have spoken to my OH about it and after long discussions, we've decided we will ask her to come and live with us but we want to do it officially through the courts, my sister won't agree to it because she won't want to lose the money or her slave.

So my question is, where do I start? Who do I contact? How long might it all take? We have legal cover with our house insurance, do you think that would cover this? I'm 99% sure my niece will say yes to coming to live here but will that be enough?

Thanks for any help

floss2

There is a poster on here who could advise you......I will give them a shout....gizmo111....!

EastMidsGal

This could turn into a really tricky situation and you want to make sure it's done right for obvious reasons. Solicitors offer an initial 30 minute appointment free of charge, they will point you in the exact right direction

gizmo111

Do you know what action the teacher has taken? Has she spoken to SS? Opening the door is not good enough excuse to ignore the child - they can go and talk to her at school.
Ring your local duty team and ask what stage the investigation is at. let them know that you are available to support. Speak to a senior practitioner or team manager if possible.
Don't let it go longer than a weekend - say next Wed you'll be ring first thing.
If you can in the meantime have your neice stay and see if you sort those nits out for her, poor child must be suffering on all levels (pain, bullying). if you get a chance talk to her about not living with mum and explain on a very child like non committal way that some children have to live away from mummy to be looked after but the adults make the decisions so the child is looked after until they are older and can return home to mummy if it's safe.

Good Luck if you need any advice/support let me know.

elvis86

What an awful situation!:(

I've not got a clue where you'd start, but I hope you manage to sort something out!

[Deleted User]

The way I helped my son when we were in a similiar situation was I said that some people wanted to know how he felt about things so they could understand how things worked. I said it was important that he spoke to them and he should tell the truth so they can decide how to make things work better.
I made it clear that unless he told the truth, no one would know how to solve any problems.

I know that you aren't in quite the same situation as your niece has already been told a horror story of what can happen. Perhaps u can (altho I am sure u already have) give as much chance as she needs to talk with u about what was said and discuss it with her. I'd probably say that sometimes people that say things like that make u feel bad, but they often aren't right, its just something they think. I probably wouldn't go into the fact that they were trying to make sure she didn't speak to SS's.

puddy

gizmo111 wrote: »

Do you know what action the teacher has taken? Has she spoken to SS? Opening the door is not good enough excuse to ignore the child - they can go and talk to her at school.
Ring your local duty team and ask what stage the investigation is at. let them know that you are available to support. Speak to a senior practitioner or team manager if possible.
Don't let it go longer than a weekend - say next Wed you'll be ring first thing.
If you can in the meantime have your neice stay and see if you sort those nits out for her, poor child must be suffering on all levels (pain, bullying). if you get a chance talk to her about not living with mum and explain on a very child like non committal way that some children have to live away from mummy to be looked after but the adults make the decisions so the child is looked after until they are older and can return home to mummy if it's safe.

Good Luck if you need any advice/support let me know.

yes, and this child needs to be reassured by you and other family members that even if she does not live with mummy for a while or until she is 18, she will ALWAYS still see you and other family and even her mum if she wants, but people cant help to make the situation better unless she explains to the social worker how things are at home.

you can make an application for custody of the child but if mother argues against this obviously the professionals will decide, difficult if mother has never really be 'worked' to change her behaviour. because there are concerns about neglect and drug use, the court should order a social services investigation, then they would have no choice but to be involved.
however, its not true to say that they could speak to the child in school, they need a parent's permission for this unless, that to get the permission would put the child at risk. unless school feel that the child would be at risk if parent knows about the allegation, then they will not have specified to SSD that they have to override parents permission.
however, there is more than one way to skin a cat and they should use their creativity to ensure that they make contact with this parent if possible

phone cafcass and ask their advice about what application to make to court or if they have any other ideas.
you could also ask social services about their 'family group conferencing' service and whether you can self refer or get them to refer. family group conferences aim to keep a child in their own home but supported by the extended family to overcome the problems which are putting them at risk. you need to use a several pronged approach here in order to get change and acknowlegement from your sister and if that doesnt happen, then support to enable you to take parental responsibility for your neice.

gizmo111

They can speak to the child in school, they have been alerted to serious concerns, can't get any response from parent so a chat with child would not be out of order. What the ycan't do is go to school if it is possible to get parents permission.

CAFCSS is not the way to go here - not just anyone can apply for residence (previously known as custody) only the following can
The following people can make an application to court for a residence order:

• a parent;
• a guardian;
• a step-parent who has treated the child as 'a child of the family';
• any other person who has obtained the consent of all those with parental responsibility;
• any person who, if the child is in care, has the consent of the local authority;
• any person who has obtained the permission of those who already have a residence order for the child
• anyone who the child has lived with for at least 3 years
• a local authority foster parent if the child has lived with them for at least 1 year immediately proceeding the application to court.

If you are not any of these people then you will have to obtain leave (permission) from the court

A court would not generally order SS to get involved. If CAFCASS were involved and there were CP concerns then CAFCASS would have a duty to alert SS long before it got to any cout hearing. CAFCASS deal with private as well as public law cases and occassionaly SS will be asked for an opinion if they have been involved with a child previously (eg divorce/contact after DV)

SS is the way to go here, assessments will be needed and the child will need ongoing support that can be offered in that framwork. It may be that something is in place maybe a CAF reeral or CP already and the OP needs to investigate and work with that first.

puddy

yes, but she can ask permission

the courts do have a duty to ask ss to do an investigation if during a cafcass investigation or an application its clear that the child is at risk. of course cafcass would inform ss (and in my experience get little response but thats another story)

as to the permission to speak to the child, it depends on what efforts were made to contact the parent, did ss phone, write, how many times etc. it sounds like there possibly wasnt a lot of effort to contact parent but nevertheless ssd are getting tighter on speaking to children without parental permission if the child is not in immediate danger

hayley11

Thank you so much for all your replies

I have an update, my niece told her teacher some things that prompted him to contact social services immediately and they have been round to see my sister and niece this afternoon. We don't know the outcome as yet but my mum is going to ring the social worker tomorrow for an update.

We don't know exactly what my niece has told them as they obviously can't tell us but we're quite alarmed by how fast they have acted and we're now feeling even more worried about the whole situation. But then at the same time if they felt she was in immediate danger, would they have left her there?

My niece is coming to stay this weekend and i'm going to have a really good talk with her and see if she would be happy coming to stay here for a while and then if she says yes we are going to talk to SS and see if we can make this happen.

She's been living like this her whole life but because my mum and I lived nearby we could look after her and make sure she was fed but my mum now lives a couple of hundred miles away and I don't live close enough for me to just pop round but I do send food up for her and I do have her to stay as often as I can. I just feel so guilty that she's living like this and i'm not doing more to help.

The scary thing is that my sister is pregnant. Her first child lives with my mum and now this is all happening with her daughter, I just hope SS get involved from day one and stay involved with this child.

gizmo111

hayley11 wrote: »

Thank you so much for all your replies

I have an update, my niece told her teacher some things that prompted him to contact social services immediately and they have been round to see my sister and niece this afternoon. We don't know the outcome as yet but my mum is going to ring the social worker tomorrow for an update.

We don't know exactly what my niece has told them as they obviously can't tell us but we're quite alarmed by how fast they have acted and we're now feeling even more worried about the whole situation. But then at the same time if they felt she was in immediate danger, would they have left her there? I'll explain the process a bit more further down.

My niece is coming to stay this weekend and i'm going to have a really good talk with her and see if she would be happy coming to stay here for a while and then if she says yes we are going to talk to SS and see if we can make this happen. I would be very careful how you word this to your neice, SS have duties and powers and to get the best for your neice don't offer too much too soon.

She's been living like this her whole life but because my mum and I lived nearby we could look after her and make sure she was fed but my mum now lives a couple of hundred miles away and I don't live close enough for me to just pop round but I do send food up for her and I do have her to stay as often as I can. I just feel so guilty that she's living like this and i'm not doing more to help. Don't feel guilty, you'll get nowhere, you are doing all you can now concentrate on that.

The scary thing is that my sister is pregnant. Her first child lives with my mum and now this is all happening with her daughter, I just hope SS get involved from day one and stay involved with this child. I hope they are aware of this if not please make sure they know asap.

Don't be alarmed at the speed SS work, all schools have a CP (child protection) lead role who will have discussed this with the teacher your neice spoke to and made the referal - so kind of a fast track service. Social workers have no authority or legal rights to remove a child from their home without either a court order or parents consent. Only the police can do so. To get the police to issue a PPO (Powers of Police Protection Order) the risk of harm has to be very high as this order only lasts 72 hours max. To get an Emergency Protection Order from the court the risk has to be higher. If leaving a child in a neglect situation (sorry this is what it is), does not pose any immediate escalating risk then the child will remain at home until an assessment and court date is fixed.

What will happen from now on is that the social worker will talk to family, school, health etc and gauge a picture of this childs life within 7 days - this is called an Initial Assessment. From there or during an idea will form on the plan for the child, most likely in this case a CP Plan in which case an Initial Conference will be called and everything will be discused and a way forward decided.

I'm not sure from you 1st post what your relationship with your sister is like but Iwould urge you to get a written undertaking from her that you can be consulted on your neices welfare to give to SS. I could PM you suggessted wording if this helps.

You are doing a great job in difficult times for your neice if I can be of any help let me know. Please keep us informed.

Kind Regards