PCN from London Borough of Redbridge with wrong car colour, can it be challenged?

Driver8

Thunderbird wrote: »

The thing is, I live over 200 miles from where the ticket was issued and I didn't have a camera with me at the time!

I have started a thread in pepipoo

I will let you know how this will end.

Many thanks

Have you tried Google earth? Have a look there from the camera cars they use. It may show the sign.

kwaks

Driver8 wrote: »

Have you tried Google earth? Have a look there from the camera cars they use. It may show the sign.

Chances are a 2 year old image wont pick up a hand written sign sellotaped on

Thunderbird_2

I am not going to be able to get pictures easily. If there is no other way of arguing the case without the pictures, I think I'll have to pay it up before it goes up to £100 and write it off and put it down to experience as I will pay more attention to where I park even if I was familiar with the place and to carry a camera with me (a disposable one) just in case I need pictures.

Many thanks

Coupon-mad

Thunderbird wrote: »

I am not going to be able to get pictures easily. If there is no other way of arguing the case without the pictures, I think I'll have to pay it up before it goes up to £100 and write it off and put it down to experience as I will pay more attention to where I park even if I was familiar with the place and to carry a camera with me (a disposable one) just in case I need pictures.

Many thanks

Don't be too hasty to send fifty quid instead of nothing! Every temporary suspension sign thread posted about on pepipoo.com that I have read in the last year, has been successfully appealable.

You don't have to show them a pic of their own sign. You just have to put them to proof that their sign was properly authorised (from your description it wasn't and these sort of rubbish signs are rife).

So you will get off this ticket IMHO. But it's your call. You normally get another chance at the £50 at the Notice to Owner stage, and if it goes to adjudication then on paper you are indeed risking paying £100, but none of us can see that happening because no Council wants to put a carpy cut & pasted suspension sign under the scrutiny of adjudication!

The Council would fold a couple of days before the hearing I bet, it happens a great deal, they play a game of bluff, collect as many paid amounts as possible then give in with those who continue to appeal. I would be very confident about this in your shoes and would continue to appeal it.

Why not post about it on pepipoo, I am sure they will agree, even without a photo:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

HTH

Coblcris

Thunderbird wrote: »

I am not going to be able to get pictures easily. If there is no other way of arguing the case without the pictures, I think I'll have to pay it up before it goes up to £100 and write it off and put it down to experience as I will pay more attention to where I park even if I was familiar with the place and to carry a camera with me (a disposable one) just in case I need pictures.

Many thanks

The council has to prove the contravention, that is the process mandated by the legislation.
I would put them to proof that it was an authorised sign by both photographs of the sign and DfT approval for that sign. They will undoubtedly fail.
I would have every confidence but it is not my money it is yours.

Horace

What to do with the London Boroughs is appeal the ticket - they will refuse (they always do) then you appeal the ticket to PATAS (who are based in New Zealand House in central london), when the ticket goes to appeal at PATAS the council have to provide evidence and they will send photographic evidence - what you need to do is take your own photographs of the sign, the parking bay etc because the council's wardens are trained to take photos from strange angles that don't show road markings etc. In the London Borough of Lambeth, the weasels there submitted photographs into evidence of a car that wasn't mine - who knows what kind of car it was but it wasnt a toyota yaris because it didnt have a hump in the dashboard and the seat pattern was different.

Don't send them any money - appeal and keep appealing. I was told a while ago that 95% of the tickets issued in London are won on appeal to PATAS so it is in your best interests to appeal.

Thunderbird_2

Thank you all for your replies!

I have posted in pepipoo, but I don't know how to start appealing and what to say or how to word the grounds of my appeal!

I would rather appeal it rather than paying it up as I believe it was unfair and money making scheme as they could have fixed the meters in the last 18 months rather than choosing to suspend the bay with a small sigen.

Many thanks

Horace

Thunderbird wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies!

I have posted in pepipoo, but I don't know how to start appealing and what to say or how to word the grounds of my appeal!

I would rather appeal it rather than paying it up as I believe it was unfair and money making scheme as they could have fixed the meters in the last 18 months rather than choosing to suspend the bay with a small sigen.

Many thanks

The first point to start is to write to the council - the address is on the PCN, also have a look at the council's website as they will have a section on parking and hopefully a list of contraventions.

Here is an extract from a letter to Lambeth Council regarding an illegal ticket that they had slapped on my car:

" I write with reference to the above PCN which was incorrectly issued to my vehicle which was displaying a valid visitors parking permit on 16 December 04 (copy enclosed herewith). One can only presume that that parking attendant did not view the permit correctly as it was raining heavily at the time and maybe the raindrops obscured the permit which was clearly displayed. I am well aware of the need to complete the permits correctly and always ensure that I do.

I am beginning to feel victimised by Lambeth Borough Council and Control Plus as not only do you think that it is OK for you to issue illegal tickets when a bay is not marked on the road but even when displaying a valid permit, you still see fit to issue me with a ticket. This is most unfair."

I have won every single ticket that Lambeth ever placed on my car...they even provided false photographic evidence which was shown at the PATAS hearing which I made a special trip to London to attend. The PATAS hearing agreed that the parking bay in question was improperly marked and was therefore invalid.

In your letter state your reasons why you are appealing and refer to an alleged incident - never admit to anything. Councils have to provide adequate signage which can be seen by all drivers - a tiny piece of paper stuck to a lamp post is insufficient. When the council refuse your appeal - they will as they like to make money from motorists, then they will let you know and tell you that you can then appeal to PATAS.

HTH

Thunderbird_2

I am sorry to disappoint you all, but I have just paid the PCN. Time is very tight at work at the moment as it is very busy that I can't see how can I spare the time in the next 4 weeks or so to challenge the PCN.

Thank you all for you great information and support. Next time, I will fight it, promise!

peter_the_piper

We can fully understand, hope we can help next time.