You have it SO much better than previous generations...

the_flying_pig

Incredibly bad use of statistics even by Hamish's standards. Misleading on so many levels but for starters:

(1) Those numbers are *averages* for people living in 2010. no-one disputes that house price inflation has been super news for people born in [broadly speaking] the 50s and 60s, maybe even the early 70s, but ruinous for [broadly speaking] people born in the 80s and mid/late 70s. Given that the first group is far bigger and largely locked into small mortgages average housing costs across the entire population aren't going to show up as radically anomalous.

(2) They don't take non-price factors into account, e.g. today's average 30 year old lives in a far smaller abode than 1970's average 30 year old.

phil_b_2

the_flying_pig wrote: »

today's average 30 year old lives in a far smaller abode than 1970's average 30 year old.

Just out of interest, where did you get that from?

Doom_and_Gloom

We do not have it easy. Housing is a lot more expensive than it should be given the economic growth (rented or otherwise) over this time and my dad has said this many times (he was born late 50's!). He also knows that fuel as a whole (even water) has risen exponentially over the time he has been alive. He is not stupid.
Clothing may be cheaper but it lacks the wear it used to and if it does usually costs the same percentage wise that it used to.
Food I will agree is less but it is only a matter of time to when it is near or the same as it used to be I believe. For some of us it is bad enough. Worse may mean cutting back on needed calories if I'm honest!

wigglebeena

Cleaver wrote: »

What a truly fantastic post and I couldn't agree more.

I've just highlighted the two lines above because, sadly, I think there are a few people who post on here that do feel that having more money does bring happiness. Or, indeed, that having a 'dream house' somehow brings happiness. I'm not sure either do.

Depends on how skint you are. Beyond a certain level, it makes no difference. Up to that level, it makes a massive difference.

If I could pack in my job, financially, my happiness would jump 500%.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

wigglebeena wrote: »

Beyond a certain level, it makes no difference. Up to that level, it makes a massive difference.

100% correct.

People say money can't buy you happiness, but they are wrong. It can..... It is probably more accurate to say that money doesn't always buy you happiness.

Money removes stress, enables choices, and provides security in life.

Sure, if you're a miserable git that wins the lottery, money isn't likely to change the fact that you're still a miserable git.....

But in my experience, people that have enough money to do the things they want to do, to have a safety net in place, to live a comfortable life without the stress of worrying about money, tend to be happier than those who don't.

Money certainly makes life a whole lot easier, which allows people to worry less about making a living, and more about living the life and lifestyle they want to.

That doesn't mean you have to be rich..... After a certain point it probably makes little difference.

But anyone who thinks money can't change your life for the better, and ultimately make you happier, is deluding themselves.

Graham_Devon

I don't agree Hamish.

Money brings security. It certainly doesn't bring happiness.

A holiday in the tropics, with lavish spending, doesn't bring any more happiness than a camping holiday in cornwall.

Very very simply, it depends on what you get out of it personally.

Not worrying about bills, a bigger house, a nicer car....thats merely security, not happiness.

Sure, some will see the lavish holiday in the tropics as bringing them more happiness....but that's probably because of what people get used to. We all get used to our own standards. It's what you actually do, and expect from things that brings happiness.

wigglebeena

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I don't agree Hamish.

Money brings security. It certainly doesn't bring happiness.

A holiday in the tropics, with lavish spending, doesn't bring any more happiness than a camping holiday in cornwall.

Very very simply, it depends on what you get out of it personally.

Not worrying about bills, a bigger house, a nicer car....thats merely security, not happiness.

Sure, some will see the lavish holiday in the tropics as bringing them more happiness....but that's probably because of what people get used to. We all get used to our own standards. It's what you actually do, and expect from things that brings happiness.

I believe some smart b***** once defined happiness as 'the moments immediately following relief from anxiety' or some such. Anxiety about money, or being stuck in a horrid situation/job/whatever due to lack of it, feels an awful lot like misery. Relief from that, via more money, would feel an awful lot like happiness.

Pernickety semantic distinctions between happiness, security, whatever you want to call it... are merely that. I maintain that a very small private income would vastly increase my happiness... not due to its intrinsic qualities, but because of how it would enable me to change disagreeable circumstances of my life.

The point being made is not so simple as the one you have answered. There are shades of grey you are ignoring.

And BTW, I can't believe you're making me back up Hamish's argument.

Jonbvn

carolt wrote: »

Money can't buy you everything, Hamish, and all the truly important things are both free and priceless.

Can you see the name of the website at the top of the page?

I think you need iamabourgeoissocialist.com

carolt

Don't worry, wigglebeena, you're not backing up Hamish's argument.

Hamish is arguing that more money = more happiness. You're arguing that more money for those struggling to pay the basics = happiness, which I don't think anyone would disagree with. As I stated above, up to a basic level, more money does indeed bring happiness, or relief from anxiety at least (which isn't quite the same thing).

Above that, it is not requisite for happiness - not unless, like Hamish, your happiness depends (a) on having a bigger telly than the next man and (b) showing off about it to a bunch of people he's never met.

Personally, I'm than happy with a small, cheap, old telly. I've been v happy when poor.

As stated above, the really important things you can't put a price on and can't buy.

I believe the Beatles have a song on the subject, for example.

carolt

Jonbvn wrote: »

Can you see the name of the website at the top of the page?

I think you need iamabourgeoissocialist.com

And you need https://www.timetogrowupnow.com.