lasting power of attorney - advice needed

clare1972

Hi - my mum has a dual diagnosis of dementai and whilst she's a proud, intelligent woman she's no longer capable of managing her own finances eg paying bills, managing accounts. However, she does maintain a level of independance, she lives on her own, and she is capable of managing small amounts of cash for daily shopping etc.

Me and my siblings were advised to register Power of Attorney whilst our mum still has the capacity to consent to it. Our understanding of this - and the new Mental Capacity Act - is that it would enable us to manage the affairs mum can no longer manage, but that she would retain the ability to make the decisions she still has the capacity to make (eg withdrawing £20 from the bank (Santander) to buy a cardie with!). we planned to open up a separate bank account in which we'd keep a limted sum of money, and give mum a card so that she could have access to cash without placing her main savings at risk.

however ... we registered POA at Santander yesterday and were informed at the end of the whole lengthy process that this now means that mum cannot sign cheques or withdraw money from any of her own accounts - that she is now totally reliant on us withdrawing that cash for her.

we're gutted - this was not our understanding of what would happen. Mum is not at the point that she needs us to give her "pocket money". the thought of her not being able to use her card or withdraw her own money is heartbreaking. It seems disproprortionate, unethical and totally contrary to the spirit of the Mental Capacity Act.

Does anyone else have similiar experiences? What can we do?

morag1202

I registered an EPA for my mother last year and had the same problem. Perhaps you might like to look into getting her a pre-paid card? MSE has a guide which may be of help.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/prepaid-cards

I hope you mum has many years of happy independent living ahead and wish you well.

clare1972

thanks for this Morag.
we've now found that this is not standard practice (blocking access to accounts for those who have donated a Lasting Power of Attorney) - Nationwide for example allows the donor to retain full access - quite rightly. In fact denying access is completely contrary to the Mental Capacity Act and also could be argued to contravene the Disability Discrimination Act. My question now is, how do we use those pices of legislation to require Santander to reinstate my mother's access; and also to require Santander, Halifax and other other bank to follow legislation and NOT to continue violating the legal rights of vulnerable people? I've spoken to so many people this afternoon and nobody has a clue!
Any ideas?

ThelmaLouise

I registered POA for my Dad with the Halifax - we both have cards and cheque books on Dads account (though he decided to give his to me!). Problem is many of the people working in the Banks are not upto speed on POA's and give lots of wrong info. But it is clearly wrong for the Banks to take away your Mums independance and not what POA's are all about.

Torry_Quine

My husband has POA for his mum but she still has her own card and cheque book from BOS although he does most transactions for her. Also has her own card for her savings account from Barclays.

Biggles

ThelmaLouise wrote: »

Problem is many of the people working in the Banks are not up to speed on POA's and give lots of wrong info.

This is the perpetual problem.

Step one: go back in and tell them that's not how it works and to check with their head office if they're not sure.

Step two: if they still can't work it out, go to another bank who does understand the way it works.

littlemissbossy

ThelmaLouise wrote: »

Problem is many of the people working in the Banks are not upto speed on POA's and give lots of wrong info.

I have this problem with my in laws POA constantly, I try to avoid the bank and do everything on line if possible. I appreciate this isn't always practical though.

monkeyspanner

clare1972 wrote: »

Hi - my mum has a dual diagnosis of dementai and whilst she's a proud, intelligent woman she's no longer capable of managing her own finances eg paying bills, managing accounts. However, she does maintain a level of independance, she lives on her own, and she is capable of managing small amounts of cash for daily shopping etc.

Me and my siblings were advised to register Power of Attorney whilst our mum still has the capacity to consent to it. Our understanding of this - and the new Mental Capacity Act - is that it would enable us to manage the affairs mum can no longer manage, but that she would retain the ability to make the decisions she still has the capacity to make (eg withdrawing £20 from the bank (Santander) to buy a cardie with!). we planned to open up a separate bank account in which we'd keep a limted sum of money, and give mum a card so that she could have access to cash without placing her main savings at risk.

however ... we registered POA at Santander yesterday and were informed at the end of the whole lengthy process that this now means that mum cannot sign cheques or withdraw money from any of her own accounts - that she is now totally reliant on us withdrawing that cash for her.

we're gutted - this was not our understanding of what would happen. Mum is not at the point that she needs us to give her "pocket money". the thought of her not being able to use her card or withdraw her own money is heartbreaking. It seems disproprortionate, unethical and totally contrary to the spirit of the Mental Capacity Act.

Does anyone else have similiar experiences? What can we do?

Exactly the same happened to us a couple of years ago with MIL's Santander account. Her cash card was cancelled when we registered a POA on her account and we ended up having to cancel the POA registration to allow her to get cash. Santander do not understand the purpose or scope of a POA and their only suggestion at the time was a joint account, which is a rediculous suggestion which would have left MIL open to problems if anything had happened to us. They also asked for MIL to be present several times when we presented the POA to make transactions on the account. Apparently they did not recognise the POA unless registered against the account.

We did take this up with Santander's head office pointing out they were effectively discriminating against a disabled person by not providing the same access to banking as a able bodied person. We got nowhere with this approach and ended up closing all Santander accounts including ours and moving MIL's banking to LLoydsTSB who were more helpful (but not 100%).

Savvy_Sue

I can only echo that any dealings with banks under the Santander umbrella have driven my parents to distraction, so changing banks seems like the best suggestion.

Valli

can I suggest you contact a charity, such as help the aged, and ask them to (a) look into the impact of Santander's decision (and any other relevant financial establishments) and (b) take up your battle with the powers that be, as they will have the clout to be heard on this one. I would also contact my MP - but not JUST yet, obviously and the MP of any other affected people in your own case.
This needs dealing with, I would have thought, by a directive to the banks from on high.
Actually, the owner of this website and SAGA might also be interested!
But in the meantime I would be changing banks...

sky_lark

I have just registered an LPA so that my daughter can take over my financial affairs should it be necessary in the future. I have also transferred all my ISAs to Santander and am horrified at what I have read about them on this forum re: LPAs.
I wish I'd read this thread before I transferred. I was talking to someone from the Office of the Public Guardian on a matter relating to my LPA yesterday, and he happened to mention that once the Power of Attorney is invoked then some banks, not all, do not allow the Donor ( in this case, me) access to his/her accounts.
So for instance, if I was involved in a car crash and required long term hospitalisation, say for several months or even a year, my daughter could activate her power of attorney and take over my affairs. However, once I had recovered, and be able to manage my affairs once again, it seems Santander would deny me access and I would lose the right to access my own money!!
This seems a ludicrous situation, if not illegal!
Does anyone know if the Financial Ombudsman has been informed that this is the practice of some banks, and is there any planned process for dealing with this?
Also, apart from Santander, does anyone know of other banks who operate this discriminatory policy, or better still, banks that don't?