Question eco TEC plus 438 Opperation

maxtorathome

Hi All

sorry for any errors new to this.

I have just purchased and had installed a new Eco TEC plus 438 + 140 Timer + VR65 Control unit.

I posted a question to the tec support email address and received a reply that contained the manual for the time clock and the phone number for the 60p per min phone call for further assistance. ( Not a great deal of use ) i have the manuals.

Are there any vaillant engineers that can answer my 2 questions below.

Thanks In advance for any support.


Email sent to vaillant support.

I have recently has a new eco TEC plus 438 fitted in our property and have a couple of questions you may be able to advise me on.
The two issues i have raised I am comparing it to my old 25 year old Boiler.

Issue 1 My old system had a 1 hour button, this was a great facility as you could press and forget and this worked for heat or hot water or both.
Simple but affective.

I purchased the 140 timer and the VR65 control unit with my 438 Boiler, but as far as i can tell the facility I have with the new boiler and 140 timer is the "PARTY MODE"

But as far as i can tell this mode only stays on until the next programmed on off time this could be just a few minutes or many hours, so you can not just press it and walk away. you have to hope it will stay on and or remember to turn it off manually. I may be incorrect but this facility does not not seem to deliver a simple quick easy process.

In my mind the 1 hour process of my old system would have been enhanced through the digital process of the 140 timer that would allow me to set the time period so the one button on could be 1 hour or whatever suited my system or requirement. ( eg i may want heating to come on for 1.5 hours and water only for 30 mins only by the press of one button)

Issue 2 Currently the weather is changing and becoming warmer but not always consistent. On my old system there was a button that was called manual. when pressed the programmer would switch off the boiler in the specific time period and would revert back to standard on the next on time period.

Example . You get up in the morning and the weather is warm and the boiler is on. You want to switch it off as it is warm enough, this is were i would use the manual button on my old system.

The only facility i have been able to find on my new system is to turn the heat control off but in this state the boiler will not come on in the afternoon and the house may be cold in the afternoon.

Now this may be my lack of understanding of the new control system but any advise would be great full.

Best Regards

Richard

gas4you

First I would have to ask why have you got the VR65?

Do you have a Vaillant Unistor cylinder as well with the VR10 sensor?

If not I cannot see any use for it in your situation.

The 140 is a basic timeswitch in reality. The party function is the same as what you used to have as 'manual'.

You must be living in a mansion to have the 438 installed!

I would have fitted a standard 'y' or 's' plan with independant programmer such as the Honeywell CM series instead.

maxtorathome

I don't live in a mansion but it is a fairly large property.

My old floor standing boiler that we removed was an 80000 Btu

Currently we have 15 Rads a mixture of single and double and we have just had planning consent to build annex on the side, this will add an extra 3 rads for the annex ( sitting room, Bath Room and Bedroom )

So this will give a total of 18 Rads throughout the house.

This is why I opted for the 138 Boiler

We have Low Water pressure into the property and this ruled out a combie system

Yes it may be a little large but i have down rated the boiler to 30kw using the boiler settings.

The VR65 was recommended by Vaillant to allow control of my 3 Port Motor Valve from the ebus system.

I just acted on vaillants advise.

You state the party mode is like my old manual button, but it is not
I can not switch the boiler off using the party mode.

I have to either change the time settings or turn the heat dial down

Hope this makes it a little more clear.

gas4you

Party mode is the same as your manual button.

To switch it off you just press the f button again to cancel it. If this doen't work the 140 may be faulty.

Going from a 24Kw boiler to a 38Kw is rather a large jump, especially with the well documented problems the 400 series has with flow issues and too much heat to get rid of.

At present I would suggest range rating it at 24Kw until your extension has been completed and with the 400 series the pump must ALWAYS be set on maximum speed.

maxtorathome

Its funny you should reference the flow issues with this boiler, i have experience this first hand. I have 2 Pumps on my system. I spent many hours personally trying to resolve flow issues not realising that it was documented.

The boiler is some distance from the hot water tank and the pump was by the tank with the Y plan valve. (STD Install ) config

Getting flow was near on impossible this is were i discovered that reducing the Kw rating would allow it to work, but i thought to myself this is never right.

Anyway fitting the second pump closer to the boiler pumping into the first pump by the hot water tank does seem to have resolved the flow issue.

Yes i think i spent more time messing with the system after the installer left.

I took me some time to discover the default boiler settings for the "Y" plan valve is to give priority to hot water. so when i was putting the hot water and heating on at the same time the system would only heat hot water first and then switch to heating.

I thought the Y plan valve was playing up on mid position.

No its in D97 option on the boiler. Then number 17 password. ( Oh Joy )........:mad:
Changes default to hot water and heating split.

Now Seems to be working as I would expect now to be honest.

One good thing out of all of this. I have learned a lot of things about my heating system, how it works and what makes it tick,

No Ticking Noises Please

Regards Richard

maxtorathome

I have contacted vaillant and revived a reply to my 2 question.
That my understanding of the functions of the system are correct.

As yet I do not have a resolution to my issues raised but I have placed a Pictorial reference to my old timer and the 2 functions i seem to now not be able to reproduce with my new system.

The pictorial reference i have sent to Vaillant tec can be seen at the following web address

http://
homepage.
ntlworld.
com/
maxtor/
vaillant

Please feel free to view this information. ( Sorry for the link layout )

Regards Richard

gas4you

You are correct in that your new control does not have a +1 hr button.

As said before, pressing F once is the same as turning in your old programmer via manual, then pressing F once again during this same 'over ridden' period will turn if off.

maxtorathome

I did try this process

I have just tested it again just to make sure.

When the boiler is in the on state heating the rads etc via the time set period
On the 140 Timer it shows the icon of the radiator only and no tap for hot water.

If I press the "F" button once the party mode switches on.
This then causes the radiator and the tap icon to be displayed ( Seems as should be )

If I Press the F button again party mode switches off the Tap Icon for hot water is removed but the radiator icon for heating stays on exactly the same as before i presses party mode and the boiler is back in to the original timed on cycle

Dont get me wrong this process works if the boiler is off ( Outside the on period ) but once it is on its staying on unless I turn the heat control knob to to zero heat requirement.

I seem to have the answer on the 1 hour function ( it does not have one )

But this lack of being able to manually switch the on cycle to off seems bizarre.

Thanks for your feedback its great your trying to help.

I reckon someone will tell me soon it will not do this either.......

Even if i have to phone vaillant Tec on 60p per min.

Regards

Richard

Canucklehead

Good evening: the RGI who installed your boiler should be your first port of contact for these questions...have you contacted him/her for a resolution as he/she is best placed to deal with queries about the controls fitted by him/her?

Canucklehead

gas4you

Can I assume that you have been into the programming and set the HW and CH times?

This basic timer is primarily designed for fitting to the Ecotec Plus 800 series (combi) where the HW side just controls the warmstart function.

I would never have suggested/recommended or fitted this timer to your system for what you want.

You really should have stuck with the old programmer, or at least updated that to retain the functions you are asking for.

The best control you could have had fitted that would do all you ask via the VR65 would have been the VR360.

lapat

sorry for being a little outspoken here but why didnt you research all this before you dived in