multi-fuel burner installation

marcusrapid

Just had a quote for insulation of multifuel burner which includes a stovax stockton 5 stove.

stove. flexible liner 7 mtrs, double skin 2 mtrs (as chimney stack has been truncated in loft) granite harth and supply and insulation in end terrace house.

£3,300 all in!! seems quite expensive to me?

any assistance on this?

ms

ormus

700 for the fire. how much for the hearth?
liner about 100/200 quid.
and then say over 2k for the fitting?

they are having a laugh.

pipsta

They are taking the !!!! like a lot of these firms are doing.
I got quoted £1400 just for parts and fitting. This didnt include the stove.

Ive ordered all the bits myself, came to £280 so where they get over 1k to connect it up is a joke. Must of thought i was born yesterday

hethmar

I wish we could buy 7 metres of 904/904 double skinned flexible, 25 year warranty for a couple of hundred quid! and we are trade (the extended solid Selkirk chimney flue they are putting outside costs over £100 a meter trade by the way and will need clamps and supports). I should imagine the granite hearth is costing a bomb too.

A lot of these so called twin wall liners on line are in fact inferior 316 quality and not really suitable for multifuel. On top of that, you have two blokes, chimney scaffolding, your compliance certificate (which you need to comply legally), your insulation materials round the lining, galvanised steel register plate, top plate, clamp, insert, stove pipe and adaptor. Removal of pots to do the job properly and the lining should go to the top of the pot with an insert to keep the most vulnerable area more protected from a chill factor, which may mean a new one to replace it and birdguard/cowls. Then you have to register the installation with three authorities and place a Data Plate with individual numbering at the job and sign it off. The cost of insuring both the customers property and the men working at heights is enough, then theres storage facilites and rates, motor vehicles and all the costs involved there, the cost of surveying the property in the first place (time and travel isnt free), the compulsory membership/training sessions required for HETAS and NACE plus the annual subs, advertising, secretarial work, accountancy and tax and oh, so much more than some customers understand.

But get some more quotes on that particular job as unless there is quite a bit of building work, possibly involving the truncated stack? and eg repairing broken midfeathers (which is common) and opening up your fireplace/installing a lintel to then its quite high.

If pipsta you would be prepared to work on rooftops in all weathers for less than £100 a day, you can have a job The costs you are quoting sound to me like you either dont have the correct material or you havent accounted for all the extras you will need for a proper job - plus hope you also have a good mate prepared to stand on a roof ridge and of course sweep out the flueway before you even start the work. And I also hope your legs are up to carrying all the insulation material sacks up and down the ladders. Not forgetting the £100 or so you will need to get Building Controls out to inspect and sign off the job, as legally required.

ormus

ok so the liner maybe 700 quid (hard to believe, but we will pass on that one) so that leaves 1900 quid.
i dont expect a man to be on a wet roof (nutter) for 100 a day either,
but i dont expect to pay him the same wages as a rocket scientist either.

pipsta

hethmar wrote: »

I wish we could buy 7 metres of 904/904 double skinned flexible, 25 year warranty for a couple of hundred quid! and we are trade (the extended solid Selkirk chimney flue they are putting outside costs over £100 a meter trade by the way and will need clamps and supports). I should imagine the granite hearth is costing a bomb too.

A lot of these so called twin wall liners on line are in fact inferior 316 quality and not really suitable for multifuel. On top of that, you have two blokes, chimney scaffolding, your compliance certificate (which you need to comply legally), your insulation materials round the lining, galvanised steel register plate, top plate, clamp, insert, stove pipe and adaptor. Removal of pots to do the job properly and the lining should go to the top of the pot with an insert to keep the most vulnerable area more protected from a chill factor, which may mean a new one to replace it and birdguard/cowls. Then you have to register the installation with three authorities and place a Data Plate with individual numbering at the job and sign it off. The cost of insuring both the customers property and the men working at heights is enough, then theres storage facilites and rates, motor vehicles and all the costs involved there, the cost of surveying the property in the first place (time and travel isnt free), the compulsory membership/training sessions required for HETAS and NACE plus the annual subs, advertising, secretarial work, accountancy and tax and oh, so much more than some customers understand.

But get some more quotes on that particular job as unless there is quite a bit of building work, possibly involving the truncated stack? and eg repairing broken midfeathers (which is common) and opening up your fireplace/installing a lintel to then its quite high.

If pipsta you would be prepared to work on rooftops in all weathers for less than £100 a day, you can have a job The costs you are quoting sound to me like you either dont have the correct material or you havent accounted for all the extras you will need for a proper job - plus hope you also have a good mate prepared to stand on a roof ridge and of course sweep out the flueway before you even start the work. And I also hope your legs are up to carrying all the insulation material sacks up and down the ladders. Not forgetting the £100 or so you will need to get Building Controls out to inspect and sign off the job, as legally required.

I do have the correct material and have done the majority of the prep work myself so I am not to be charged lots of money. The liner I have bought is 904/904 flexible liner and it does not cost over £100 a meter!

Insulation material is about £16 a bag so not alot.

I have all the fittings required:

Liner 904/904
VE piping
Rigid to flex adapter
Top Hat plate
Top Clamp
Cowl with liner clamp/bird cage
Register plate
Fire Cement
Leca Backfill
Notice Plate

I obtained all this for less than £300 so when I get a quote through the door for £1400 which is a days work at most there is no way I am paying £1100 for labour and registery of the stove.

I have done all the ground work as to get the proffesionals in and out as quick as possible and as cheap as possible.

This is not rocket science and if it takes two people to install which im sure most frims do, Their labour is not worth £550 a day.

hethmar

The lining which I said costs over £100 is not 904/904 flexible but the solid twin wall selkirk which the OP will need for the outside as he has no stack.

The notice plate you say you have is worthless if its not numbered and registered with an authority - otherwise you need the Building Controls officer to come out before and after the works to sign the job off as safe.

Im sorry, I dont believe you got all those materials for under £300 - the galvanised steel register plate alone, if done properly would cost you at least £60 without even adjustments and fitting. A decent cowl is at least £45 trade, cheaper ones merely disintegrate. What are you paying for scaffolding to meet health and safety regs? And what are you paying the mate who you will need to stand on the roof, remove the pot and pass the liner down (not forgetting that on bends if you dont remove them first by kangoing, the liner will simply tear and be useless when you light a fire) oh and there is always the matter of midfeathers collapsing when you put pressure on them.. How many bags of insulation are you using at £16 a bag? Have you got the right size hearth to meet building regs? What are you paying for a thorough sweep before hand? How will you control micro dust from the chimney during works? (We had an insurance company ask us to line a chimney after the guy had attempted himself, the midfeathers collapsed, the whole house was filled with dust and the family had to move out for a month).

If you think a bloke is a nutter to stand on a wet roof - ok, what do you do when the weather is bad, tell the blokes they cant work, so there is no pay today? And what about National Insurance, holiday pay, PAYE and pensions - does that all come from thin air?

You say you have done the majority of preparation work yourself - then of course its cheaper for you to do that - unless you can earn more in that time in your own occupation.

Ormus, I give up on you, you have not taken into account the stove, the expensive granite hearth - all of which will need time and work to fit properly, nor the overheads nor have you seen that the OP is having two different types of lining at the property.

What do other people earn in a week? I dont think for the dangerous nature of the job plus all the overheads that chimney liners are extortionate. My chiropractor charges £30 for about 10 minutes clicking of my back. I dont query that with him, he has trained, he has to pay for premises and overheads and his has skills. How much do car mechanics charge? Even a call out for a washing machine repair is £70 before they look at the machine.

pipsta

hethmar wrote: »

The lining which I said costs over £100 is not 904/904 flexible but the solid twin wall selkirk which the OP will need for the outside as he has no stack.

The notice plate you say you have is worthless if its not numbered and registered with an authority - otherwise you need the Building Controls officer to come out before and after the works to sign the job off as safe.

Im sorry, I dont believe you got all those materials for under £300 - the galvanised steel register plate alone, if done properly would cost you at least £60 without even adjustments and fitting. A decent cowl is at least £45 trade, cheaper ones merely disintegrate. What are you paying for scaffolding to meet health and safety regs? And what are you paying the mate who you will need to stand on the roof, remove the pot and pass the liner down (not forgetting that on bends if you dont remove them first by kangoing, the liner will simply tear and be useless when you light a fire) oh and there is always the matter of midfeathers collapsing when you put pressure on them.. How many bags of insulation are you using at £16 a bag? Have you got the right size hearth to meet building regs? What are you paying for a thorough sweep before hand? How will you control micro dust from the chimney during works? (We had an insurance company ask us to line a chimney after the guy had attempted himself, the midfeathers collapsed, the whole house was filled with dust and the family had to move out for a month).

If you think a bloke is a nutter to stand on a wet roof - ok, what do you do when the weather is bad, tell the blokes they cant work, so there is no pay today? And what about National Insurance, holiday pay, PAYE and pensions - does that all come from thin air?

You say you have done the majority of preparation work yourself - then of course its cheaper for you to do that - unless you can earn more in that time in your own occupation.

You are talking to me like I am a total muppet and clueless, You are also assuming worse case senario for everything. I have done my homework on this and are ensuring everything is in place ready for it to be fitted at the cheapest possible price. The notice plate is not worthless, it is there ready to be filled in by the proffessional who is coming into install the stove (when I can find one who does not try to rip me off). The register plate has been made by friendly engineering company and was free. The cowl is not cheap rubbish and costs nothing as it is already on the chimney. The chimney does not need to be swept as it has never been used for solid fuel. Fireplace hearth has been built to regs minimum 300 to front and 150 to sides. 500 to bottom of lintel (6" piped stove).

Just because I dont do this for a living doesnt mean I havent got a clue whats involved only a bit of reading is required. Any one who tries to offer me their services at £550 a day must think i was born yesterday.

bootman

Just wanted to say do let us know what you eventually pay. I had a similar quote for less work. I too do as much leg work as possable for any jobs I've had done in the house and read up like you and have no intention of paying silly money either.

Good luck with your hunt.

hethmar

Ah, so you arent actually installing the stove which will be more money on top of the costings.
And I take it your chap will be issuing you with the necessary certificate.

And you are getting the plate free. And you arent buying a cowl. So is it the right sort for multifuel, as you say its never been used for solid fuel - unlikely? Anyway, it and the pot will have to come off and be reinstalled when you and your non charging labourer mate put in the liner. You say you dont need the flue swept - the worse insurance job we had to go out to was where an unregistered liner tried to line a chimney previously used for an oil boiler. He had to open an access point in a bedroom where there was a slight bend in the flueway. The oily smut which was invisible to his eye escaped and settled on every piece of furniture and upholstery in the house.

And as an employer and a registered "competent person" of course we have to assume worse case scenario. We have seen people with the external stack collapsed on them when they have fiddled about trying to do the job without taking into account dodgey brickwork.

So how on earth can you try to compare your situation, with someone doing the job for a living?

pipsta

hethmar wrote: »

Ah, so you arent actually installing the stove which will be more money on top of the costings.
And I take it your chap will be issuing you with the necessary certificate.

And you are getting the plate free. And you arent buying a cowl. So is it the right sort for multifuel, as you say its never been used for solid fuel - unlikely? Anyway, it and the pot will have to come off and be reinstalled when you and your non charging labourer mate put in the liner. You say you dont need the flue swept - the worse insurance job we had to go out to was where an unregistered liner tried to line a chimney previously used for an oil boiler. The oily smut which was invisible to his eye settled on every piece of furniture and upholstery in the house.



And as an employer and a registered "competent person" of course we have to assume worse case scenario. We have seen people with the external stack collapsed on them when they have fiddled about trying to do the job themselves without taking into account dodgey brickwork.

So how on earth can you try to compare your situation, with someone doing the job for a living?

Im not doing the job myself, I have bought all the bits and want a HETAS engineer to fit it.

The plate came with the fixings

House is bare as I am in middle of renovation.

Im not putting the liner in or anything but do you think I should be paying in the region of £1100 to have it fitted?

Can I ask are you a HETAS registered engineer?