The Great 'Get Paid To Generate Energy' Hunt

zeupater

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I'd say the very high price of panels in the UK is due almost solely due to the FIT.

It's obvious that people are prerpared to pay more for goods if they have a government guaranteed return of an index linked tax free £1500pa with the fit as opposed to an approximate £80pa return if the subsidy didn't exist.

The price with the fit will then be governed by what most people think is a reasonable lifetime return for the investment, and the cost price to the installer is irrelevant under subsidy conditions. These days, a 10% simple return, equating to an approximate 8% irr (or real rate, after inflation and capital costs) is almost guaranteed to set the price in the £15k area. (The demand would outstrip the capacity of the supply chain to install if the price were less typically). If the fits were withdrawn tomorrow, you'd see demand, and therefore the price, plummet to a level of cost price (which itself would also drop) plus a much smaller margin, imv.

Hi

I can see your point, but FiTs are available elsewhere and the prices have been reducing ..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_incentives_for_photovoltaics ... I think that it's more to do with the typical UK business and financial sector mentality which effectively killed off manufacturing in this country through insistance on high returns on new products and technologies, leaving an open invitation to international competitors who tend to take a long term view on growing returns though market share.

I suppose another way of putting it is pure greed .... making hay whilst the sun shines ...

Z

Equaliser123

Anyone any idea as to when the inflationary increase in FITs is due to take place? Presumably it is an annual event?

mysterons

This question was asked over at Navitron, 'Ted' who seems to know all things FIT related replied;
'The new FiTs rates must be announced on or before 1st March of each year.'

zeupater

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Anyone any idea as to when the inflationary increase in FITs is due to take place? Presumably it is an annual event?

Hi

The FiT payment/kWh is set to track the annual RPI, however, as to the month the RPI is taken for the adjustment, I've no idea ..... looking at the ONS figures it looks like an increase of somewhere betweeen 4.5% & 5.2% would be likely to be announced, depending on which month forms the basis of the FiT/RPI increase .... http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=19 ... remember, in the case of a negative RPI the FiT would actually reduce (look at the chart in the link, it can happen).

HTH
Z

John_Pierpoint

zeupater wrote: »

Hi


I'm sure that if I was running an installation company and believed that the wholesaler was effectively 'ripping me off' I'd soon make use of the european single market and the fact that english is the international language of business and change the supply chain .... after all MCS is installer and product based, not wholesaler.

HTH
Z

Am I right in thinking that the UK grid works on a standard that is different from that used by our Continental chums?

For example different cycles per second (or hertz (symbol: Hz) if you prefer)?

That said, my local petrol filling station was rebuilt by immigrant labour and fitted out by a team with a van that came over from France each week.

So the barrier to competition is MCS approval ?

Doc_N

mysterons wrote: »

This question was asked over at Navitron, 'Ted' who seems to know all things FIT related replied;
'The new FiTs rates must be announced on or before 1st March of each year.'

He's right (as always). The legislation provides that:

13. On or before 1st March immediately before the beginning of each FIT year (except FIT year 1), the Authority must publish the FIT payment rate table applicable for that FIT year in accordance with clause 3.3 of Part 1 of Schedule A to Standard Licence Condition 33.

FIT year 1 is the year 1 April 2010-31 March 2011, we're about to enter FIT year 2, so a revised FIT payment rate table has to be published within the next 10 days.

Equaliser123

Doc_N wrote: »

He's right (as always). The legislation provides that:

13. On or before 1st March immediately before the beginning of each FIT year (except FIT year 1), the Authority must publish the FIT payment rate table applicable for that FIT year in accordance with clause 3.3 of Part 1 of Schedule A to Standard Licence Condition 33.

FIT year 1 is the year 1 April 2010-31 March 2011, we're about to enter FIT year 2, so a revised FIT payment rate table has to be published within the next 10 days.

Excellent. Wonder if it will happen.

Also wonder how the energy companies will calculate payments when part if pre-inflationary change and part post.

Doc_N

Equaliser123 wrote: »

Also wonder how the energy companies will calculate payments when part if pre-inflationary change and part post.

Good point. Might be worth sending a reading to your power company on 1 April just as a record.

Unless, of course, you feel that post-31 March readings will attract the new rate in full.

I imagine they'll pro-rata it, but if they do you'd probably lose out because of the increasing hours of sunshine.

grahamc2003

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that the UK grid works on a standard that is different from that used by our Continental chums?

For example different cycles per second (or hertz (symbol: Hz) if you prefer)?

That said, my local petrol filling station was rebuilt by immigrant labour and fitted out by a team with a van that came over from France each week.

So the barrier to competition is MCS approval ?

Hi John, the England and Wales grid (the 'National' Grid) is now compatible with all of Europe. Afaiia, Europe has always operated on the same nominal frequency of 50Hz, although until a few years ago, the local grid at household level in Europe was generally 230v nominal, against the UK's 240v. Now, households get 230v nominal, and Eurpoean directives have set limits for all of Europe to be within the range 207v to 244v and this range I expect will be narrowed over the years to around 230v as countries historically operating at different voltages (like England and Wales) adapt to that standard.

Where we link to Europe, historically, the French link imported electricity by converting their AC to DC , and then converting from DC to AC this side of the channel - one reason being the alleviation of the need for synchronising the grids' frequency even though of the same nominal 50Hz (i.e. both grids could float around 50Hz independently).

You can see NGCs realtime grid frequency here ...

http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk/grid.htm

The result of that standardisation is that a French or Polish sparky would be able to physically connect up a PV system using parts (eg inverters) from his stock. He (or rather the company contracting him) would of course have to be mcs qualified to get the fit - I don't know whether Eurpoean tickets allow them legally to work in the uk to uk standards without first getting a uk ticket, so that aspect may stop a totally free installation market.

John_Pierpoint

Many thanks for that explanation that all of the EU should now be on 50 Hz. (Somewhere I had incorrectly got the idea that France was on 60Hz) .

There was a UN spokesman, talking about the fortune that countries are spending on subsidies to planet wrecking industries, on the radio today. He gave the example of giving the fishing industry grants for bigger boats and subsidised diesel as an example of wrecking and contrasted it with the way that FiT's are causing the price of PV panels to drop (with more dramatic reductions imminent!?!) as an example of a virtuous circle creating a new industry.

John

http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-property/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=12193
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