The Great 'Get Paid To Generate Energy' Hunt

Cardew

jackieblack wrote: »

Yes, I think you're right about that, Mark Group do the install but the panels E-on supply are 185W panels, and the ones used by Tesco are 175W(although I am still waiting for Tesco's quote so am almost on the point of giving up with them). So, unless I'm mis-understanding this, they will produce 5-6% more electricity (?).

Yes but you are not buying qty x panels e.g. 20 x 175wp panels or 20 x 185wp panels.

You buy a xkWp system e.g. a nominal 4kWp system could be made up from 22 x 175wp panels(3.85kWp) or 21 x 185wp panels(3.88kWp) or 18 x 220wp panels(3.96kWp)

jackieblack

mysterons wrote: »

Amounts of electricity produced are dependent on the size of the installed array, panel sizes are irrelevant unless the total adds up to more.

12 x 185W panels will generate more tham 12 x 175W panels though, won't they? (or am i being really thick?)

mysterons wrote: »

Tesco are using 220w Sharp panels now

Odd, I rang up them yesterday to ask what panels they are using and was told Sharp 175W.

mysterons wrote: »

but if you need an install to a specific timeframe then Tesco are probably not for you. Although Mark Group are doing installs for various sellers Tesco installations seem to be low priority with them, I suspect because of the low margin Tesco are giving them.

Quite! Despite having already had a survey done by Mark Group (which I advised Tesco of more of over two weeks ago) I am still waiting for their quote, goodness only knows how long it would take them to get around to the install!

mysterons wrote: »

If you've already had a Mark Group survey done you could use that to get quotes from other suppliers, I believe zeupater went that route.

I don't think I've got enough time to get any more quotes now, as I need to have the panels fitted during October half-term week.

jackieblack

Cardew wrote: »

Yes but you are not buying qty x panels e.g. 20 x 175wp panels or 20 x 185wp panels.

You buy a xkWp system e.g. a nominal 4kWp system could be made up from 22 x 175wp panels(3.85kWp) or 21 x 185wp panels(3.88kWp) or 18 x 220wp panels(3.96kWp)

:huh: All the quotes I have are for a 12 panel array..... but the kWp quoted differs slightly on each quote (5-6%) , presumably because of the different W generated by the different panels....?

mysterons

If you can only fit 12 panels on the roof then E-on look your best bet especially if they are willing to work to your desired install date although you probably wont notice any extra real benefit from another 120 watts capacity.
As Mark Group would be handling installation I expect they would rather work with E-on's quote for a bit more profit and so are delaying any Tesco quote as they know your preferred timeframe already. All the delays I've experienced buying via Tesco seem to point to Mark Group ultimately.

zeupater

Hi

Latest benchmark for european solar pv pricing .........

http://www.solarserver.com/service/pvx-spot-market-price-index-solar-pv-modules.html

European manufactured pv panel prices have fallen by 8.4% this year (to August) resulting in an average spot price of £1.55/Wp (note that this is 'spot price' not long term scheduled large contract pricing).

Interesting also to see that inverter prices continue to fall and have done so by 30% in a year http://www.solarserver.com/solar-magazine/solar-news/current/kw33/another-pv-market-record-broken-inverter-shipments-hit-5-gw-in-q210-according-to-ims-research.html ..... good to see that a little competition and economy of scale is improving the profitability in the logistics and installation part of this sector ........ perhaps this will soon be reflected in a reduction in prices to the consumer ....

Regards

noncom_2

mysterons wrote: »

If you can only fit 12 panels on the roof then E-on look your best bet especially if they are willing to work to your desired install date although you probably wont notice any extra real benefit from another 120 watts capacity.

You may not notice the extra benefit in terms of the amount of free energy you get while the panels are generating, but the difference between 12*175 and 12*185 is, as the OP calculated, between 5 and 6%.

Assuming that the installation price (and the product quality/warranty etc) is the same, then the amount of money generated by the system is directly proportional to the total output. Therefore, in money saving terms, the return on investment will be 5-6% greater with the higher output system than the lower, bringing the payback time down by 6 months to a year.

I don't think this is insignificant.

ChrisJD

The more I talk to suppliers, the more difficult the decision becomes. How does one choose between a panel supplier with a history and wide product base, or a specialist with better warranty and performance guarantee?
For instance, Sharp are a large company with a wide spread, but they only offer a 5 year parts warranty, with performance guarantee of 90% after 10 years and 80% after 25 years.
Compare this with Sungrid, a smaller, more specialist firm, of whose panels many speak highly. Their parts warranty is 10 years, and performance guarantee is 90% after 12 years and 85% after 25 years.
I suppose the reality is that the fine print of the warranty means that, because of the costs the owner has to bear, and the likely reduction of panel prices with time, it is unlikely to be called upon. OTOH, it is an indication of the belief the supplier has in their product. Of course, if they get it wrong, and go out of business, it is worthless anyway.
I really want to make a decision soon, but am finding it hard to get information which I can depend upon to be unbiased.

Jimmy_SS

ChrisJD wrote: »

The more I talk to suppliers, the more difficult the decision becomes. How does one choose between a panel supplier with a history and wide product base, or a specialist with better warranty and performance guarantee?
For instance, Sharp are a large company with a wide spread, but they only offer a 5 year parts warranty, with performance guarantee of 90% after 10 years and 80% after 25 years.
Compare this with Sungrid, a smaller, more specialist firm, of whose panels many speak highly. Their parts warranty is 10 years, and performance guarantee is 90% after 12 years and 85% after 25 years.
I suppose the reality is that the fine print of the warranty means that, because of the costs the owner has to bear, and the likely reduction of panel prices with time, it is unlikely to be called upon. OTOH, it is an indication of the belief the supplier has in their product. Of course, if they get it wrong, and go out of business, it is worthless anyway.
I really want to make a decision soon, but am finding it hard to get information which I can depend upon to be unbiased.

Hi Chris,

I can understand your dilemma regarding warranties – if you need an another opinion then feel free to give us a call at Spirit Solar. Our most popular panels are Sharp and Sanyo, and all come with the 80% performance guarantee after 25 years which you mention above. Also, We give a 5 year workmanship warranty, and we guarantee to investigate and rectify any query or complaint about your system in the first 5 years free of charge, with no call out fee. That said, it should be stressed that not a great deal can go wrong with a solar panel - it has no moving parts - and there really is very little likelihood that you would ever need to make a warranty claim.

For any further advice or information then please feel free to get in touch and we will do our best to answer any questions you may have.

Jimmy
Spirit Solar
spiritsolar.co.uk
0118 945 99 92

jackieblack

mysterons wrote: »

If you can only fit 12 panels on the roof then E-on look your best bet especially if they are willing to work to your desired install date although you probably wont notice any extra real benefit from another 120 watts capacity.
As Mark Group would be handling installation I expect they would rather work with E-on's quote for a bit more profit and so are delaying any Tesco quote as they know your preferred timeframe already. All the delays I've experienced buying via Tesco seem to point to Mark Group ultimately.

Thanks, yes, this is what I'm thinking - hence my question

jackieblack wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience of having a solar (PV) system installed by/through E-on, please?
How was it?
Were you satisfied with the service?
Did everything work out as expected?

Have had a couple of quotes, but am erring towards E-on at the moment.......

Cardew

ChrisJD wrote: »

The more I talk to suppliers, the more difficult the decision becomes. How does one choose between a panel supplier with a history and wide product base, or a specialist with better warranty and performance guarantee?
For instance, Sharp are a large company with a wide spread, but they only offer a 5 year parts warranty, with performance guarantee of 90% after 10 years and 80% after 25 years.
Compare this with Sungrid, a smaller, more specialist firm, of whose panels many speak highly. Their parts warranty is 10 years, and performance guarantee is 90% after 12 years and 85% after 25 years.
I suppose the reality is that the fine print of the warranty means that, because of the costs the owner has to bear, and the likely reduction of panel prices with time, it is unlikely to be called upon. OTOH, it is an indication of the belief the supplier has in their product. Of course, if they get it wrong, and go out of business, it is worthless anyway.
I really want to make a decision soon, but am finding it hard to get information which I can depend upon to be unbiased.

It is not the panel suppliers, but the MCS approved installers that a customer has to deal with.

You need to be very careful of what the warranty covers. For instance this is the Sungrid warranty.

Limited Product Warranty – Ten Years Repair, Replacement or Refund

SUNGRID LTD. (“Sungrid”) warrants its Photovoltaic Solar Modules (“Modules”), including factory-assembled DC connectors and cables,(my bold) if any, to be free from defect in materials and workmanship under normal application, installation, use and service conditions. If Modules fail to conform to this warranty, during the period ending One Hundred & Twenty (120) months from the date of sale as shown on the invoice to the first consumer customer of the Sungrid product (“Customer”), Sungrid will, at its option, either repair or replace the product. The repair or replacement shall be the sole and exclusive remedy provided under the “Limited Product Warranty” and shall not extend beyond the One Hundred & Twenty (120) months period set forth herein. This “Limited Product Warranty” does not warrant a specific power output, which shall be exclusively covered under clause 2 hereinafter (“Limited Peak Power Warranty”).

The panels themselves sometimes have a 20 year warranty. It is the high cost items like the inverter that needs to be covered.

Most systems used to have a 2 year warranty and I don't know if the schemes backed by Tesco etc are any different.

In any case if there is a partial failure of a panel - how is 'Mr Average' to find out? Ditto who will check the degradation of the panels is within spec. Would he need to take out an annual 'servicing package' with the installer?

To my mind the big advantage of going with a big firm like Tesco etc is they can be held responsible for the work of their sub-contractor who carries out the installation.

Frankly many solar PV fitting firms will not be around in a few years - as the FIT subsidies decrease post 2012, and initial demand is satisfied, the work will simply not justify many firms staying in business.

In any case unless the long term warranties are backed by a reputable insurance company, they are meaningless. The solar thermal industry is a classic example. Firms cease trading with regularity(ask Dorset trading standards - the Christchurch area was the Solar capital)) and start up again with the same directors, employees, etc with a different company name.