House of Multiple Occupancy - Any work arounds?

PatchHFX

Hi all,

I currently live in a 4 storey townhouse with 4 friends. We are 4 households (2 of my friends are a couple) and have lived here since 7th November last year. Our contract for 6 months runs out 7th May and we have all signed onto a rolling contract (month by month). We have all been friends for years before moving in to the place, hence we are more like a family than most families I guess! I'm the youngest at 23, we have 3 males at 25, 30 and 42 and 1 female at 25 also. The point i'm trying to make is that we aren't 5 separate people coming together on a forum somewhere to get a house share going.

We are renting through an agency and have no problems with them at all. In fact we have been, to all intents and purposes model tenants. We pay on time every time, never give trouble to the neighbours, keep the place in a good state and always make the place available for inspections etc.

When we were first looking for a place to rent we had quite a bit of trouble convincing people we were genuine friends and weren't about to smash the place up and have outrageous parties every weekend. While there may be the odd gathering i'm pretty good at getting people to turn music down! We really liked the house and decided we'd get it no matter what! So I had a word with the agency involved who weren't prepared to rent to 5 separate people as the owner wanted a family in the property. We managed to sweet talk the owner with an extra £100 in rent than they were asking and also gave her the oppurtunity to meet us beforehand and see what we were like, she didn't go for this and I guess the extra £100 a month sorted that.

I got a call from the tenancy agency on friday saying they needed the house to be available this wednesday for an inspection, the agent said because we were in a house of more than 3 storeys and we were 5 people of more than 2 households that the council neeeded to see the place. This I don't question, I have read that the housing act of 2004 changed the restrictions on letting to multiple people. It is a bit annoying though, as every time I read about HMO it's to do with random people living in their self contained rooms and meeting once or twice in the kitchens etc. As I explained earlier we are more like a family, we eat meals together and shop as a unit, and if we're not all sat/stood in the kitchen having a cuppa every night for chats there is something wrong!

The thing that i'm a bit concerned about is that the letting agency should have known the owner would need a licence to rent to us. The agent specifically said to me "we knew these were in place but didn't think they would ever be enforced", which is a bit of a stupid statement as they sorted the bills and put the council tax in our 5 separate names, duh. We also just got our polling cards through, I put everyone on the electoral roll as soon as we got here but with the general election coming up I wonder if somehow it was flagged that we were 5 different surnames in one house, ho hum

Sorry for the wall of text! I get carried away sometimes, anyway, the crux of this thread is, the agent told me that if these licences were needed and new regulations were placed on the house the owner wasn't willing to cough up any extra investment on the place and we'd basically need to leave. It's a bit of a kick in the nuts when you think we've paid them £600 more over our tenancy than they were asking and we haven't given them any cause to want us out. The agent himself said to me a few months ago that he was really happy with us (as they never heard a peep and the money rolled in I gather!)

It just seems strange that this is all coming about at the end of our original 6 month tenancy, would they have preferred we signed up to a new 6 month short term agreement or something?

Anyhow, any questions are welcome and any advice is most welcome! Or if you just want to add anything, all is welcome basically!

Thanks for reading,

Patch

clutton_2

Your landlord and possibly your agent will be running the risk of substantial fines under the 2004 Act - more especially because the property is 3 storey... there are swingeing penalties (up to £50k per prosecution) for non-compliance.

Whether you can argue that you are one household.. i really dont know - but the 2004 Act does specify exactly what a household consists of... and there are many different types of household, i suggest you google it and look it up...

One way to look at it is that your landlord is putting ALL your lives at risk by not complying with 3 story fire-regulations..... they do cost a lot of money ... (fire doors throughout; half hour fire walls; illuminated fire EXIT signs; hard wired smoke alarms - to name but a few)

Do you really want to stay in a house where your lives are so little thought of by somone who is making extra additional profit from you but using none of that money to protect you ?

As a good landlord, this makes my blood boil....

Both agent and LL ought to be prosecuted in my view...

The local authority have the powers to force them to do the necessary amendment to the property ... whether they want to or not.....

CIS

The thing that i'm a bit concerned about is that the letting agency should have known the owner would need a licence to rent to us. The agent specifically said to me "we knew these were in place but didn't think they would ever be enforced", which is a bit of a stupid statement as they sorted the bills and put the council tax in our 5 separate names, duh. We also just got our polling cards through, I put everyone on the electoral roll as soon as we got here but

If its an HMO for council tax purposes then the law states that the owner is liable for the council tax, not the tenants. The L/L can recoup the money from you but the council tax bill should not be in your name.

In practice this means that if the council are satisfied its an HMO then the bill will need changed to the L/L's name and any monies paid by yourselves would have to be refunded to you and the L/L would need to try and re-coup the money from you himeself.

tbs624

PatchHFX wrote: »

The thing that i'm a bit concerned about is that the letting agency should have known the owner would need a licence to rent to us. The agent specifically said to me "we knew these were in place but didn't think they would ever be enforced", which is a bit of a stupid statement as they sorted the bills and put the council tax in our 5 separate names, duh...

Your LA is appalling but the fact is that you can set up in business as an LA with no qualifications, no training, no particular expertise etc. IMO knowing about the Regs but failing to comply ( and not advising the LL appropriately) is worse than being ignorant of them in first place.

PatchHFX wrote: »

, ......anyway, the crux of this thread is, the agent told me that if these licences were needed and new regulations were placed on the house the owner wasn't willing to cough up any extra investment on the place and we'd basically need to leave.

The property and occupancy type that you describe very definitely comes under HMO Regs - the LL and the LA are running the risk of a very hefty fine . See here and here for examples.

The Regs are there for Tenants' protection; you all being good mates doesn't stop a fire sweeping through the property. The bottom line is that you *will* have to look for someone new if the LL is not prepared to jump through the necessary hoops for HMO registration.

You may also be interested in reading up on Rent Repayment Orders - see here

PatchHFX

Thanks so much for your input I must admit i've come on here thinking there might be a way around this but it seems that your advice is more aimed towards our safety. It hadn't even crossed my mind but that's why these regs are here!

I think myself and my friends are probably best looking for a new place whatever happens, even if it turns out we can stay here, I don't have as much faith in my LA.

Thanks again time to swot up ^^

Patch