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Can anyone advise me please??

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Thanks in advance, needs some advice please.

Just finished a rotten week in work going through the redundancy process.

I work for firm who employed 5 couriers and 4 office staff.
I'm one of the office staff.
The company held it's first consultation meeting on monday to announce that it wanted to down size to 2 couriers, 2 office staff and 2 to work in between.
During the meeting on wednesday to go through the selection criteria i had to fight tooth and nail to try and get my scoring raised, one particular section was skills, they rated my skill level as "adequate - but will need development". Argued that was incorrect, to no avail.
Come today (Friday) have been told i've been selected for redundancy BUT been offered alternative employment with the same company, doing both office and courier duties, but on Temp basis to the end of December to cover maternity cover.
But here is what getting my goat up. Including myself, 3 office staff got the bullet, but only 1 courier. The have now chosen the 2 couriers to work in the office, in my view have a lower skill level the myself. (one of them is asking me for help on a few things!)

Now, i am grateful the company have offered this alternative position, but its only for 8 months, they did mention that if things pick up i might stand a chance of being kept on. Do I signed up for this post and work hard hoping to get kept on, or complain, might risk losing the post then. Will the dole not pay out if i refuse?

One final thing, i signed this selection criteria sheet. The company say its to prove that they conducted the meeting in a fair and open way. Is this legit?

My feelings are mix of anger and worry. Sorry for this long post, but any thoughts will be appreciated. thanks.

Comments

  • Valli
    Valli Posts: 25,460 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 17 April 2010 at 12:24PM
    as I understand it the JOB is redundant not the employee. Therefore if they are making office staff redundant then transferring other staff IN to the office to do (some of?) the 'redundant' work they are breaking the law.

    1. Are you in a union? If so contact them ASAP (Though I am assuming you aren't as the union should have been involved at the outset)

    2. Contact ACAS

    Please note I am not an HR person and my understanding of this goes back some time to when I was made redundant. The law may well have changed since then.

    I would NOT BTW be 'helping' the new staff. Unless you have a specific duty to support/train 'new' staff - but these aren't new.

    Always worth being in a union (IMHO) because it is, in effect someone on your side when the bosses start playing dirty! And that's why some companies 'discourage' employees from union membership!
    Don't put it DOWN; put it AWAY
    "I would like more sisters, that the taking out of one, might not leave such stillness" Emily Dickinson
    :heart:Janice 1964-2016:heart:

    Thank you Honey Bear
  • poocreek
    poocreek Posts: 19 Forumite
    Hello Valli, thanks for the reply. Your right i'm not with a Union, wish i was, sure they would a field day with my company. I did have a chat with ACAS, told me that I could appeal companies decision but could risk the Temp job offer. Rock and Hard place for me.
  • sagalout1954
    sagalout1954 Posts: 418 Forumite
    Photogenic
    edited 17 April 2010 at 11:34PM
    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Redundancy/DG_10029832

    Some stuff there.

    Don't do anything to cut your nose off to spite your face. It's an employers market out there at the moment so if the 8 month job is worth having then take it (if you opted to take your redundancy, how long will that money last you - more than 8 months?).

    Even in the 8 month role I wouldn't wait around working like a trojan 'to see if you get kept on'. I'd use the 8 months to do some serious job hunting without giving the 'loss' of the delayed redundancy payment a second thought.

    Don't know what anyone else thinks, but I've always found it's easier to get a job when you've already got one!

    Good luck
  • dickydonkin
    dickydonkin Posts: 3,055 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Come today (Friday) have been told i've been selected for redundancy BUT been offered alternative employment with the same company, doing both office and courier duties, but on Temp basis to the end of December to cover maternity cover.

    I am assuming that you will be given your redundancy payment AS WELL as the temporary job offer - I hope this is correct.

    If this is not the case, there is potential that after the period of temporary working, the company may assume that you had accepted the new terms and conditions (implied temporary contract) that could leave you with nothing at the term of the temporary period.

    If you do indeed receive your redundancy payments, then fine, but I think the process has been shabby at the very best.
  • anamenottaken
    anamenottaken Posts: 4,198 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Valli wrote: »
    as I understand it the JOB is redundant not the employee. Therefore if they are making office staff redundant then transferring other staff IN to the office to do (some of?) the 'redundant' work they are breaking the law.

    Redundancy arises when less work is required to be done. It seems that the courier and office work have been put into one pot as it were. As long as no new employees are taken on to do any of the roles, then it is not illegal to bump people round to do the work which was previously done by people who are redundant.

    (Way back we started saying that jobs were redundant, not people, because it sounded uncaring to say a human being was redundant.)
  • anamenottaken
    anamenottaken Posts: 4,198 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    dpassmore wrote: »
    I am assuming that you will be given your redundancy payment AS WELL as the temporary job offer - I hope this is correct.

    This should not be the case - the OP is being offered alternative work - is being bumped round the organisation.

    If this is not the case, there is potential that after the period of temporary working, the company may assume that you had accepted the new terms and conditions (implied temporary contract) that could leave you with nothing at the term of the temporary period.

    It would be like a secondment, not a temporary contract. They would still have continual employment with the organisation, their redundancy pay would have increased (assuming that at some time in the 8 month period they passed another employment anniversary).

    If you do indeed receive your redundancy payments, then fine, but I think the process has been shabby at the very best.
    ...................................
  • dickydonkin
    dickydonkin Posts: 3,055 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 18 April 2010 at 11:25AM
    This should not be the case - the OP is being offered alternative work - is being bumped round the organisation.

    It shouldn't - but is it? - that was my question. The OP has not stated at to whether the 'alternative employment' would ensure a continuation of employment, but has indicated that it is a temporary job offer to cover maternity leave. I also asked if this offer was in addition to redundancy payments.

    BUT been offered alternative employment with the same company, doing both office and courier duties, but on Temp basis to the end of December to cover maternity cover.
    It is also debatable if the 'alternative employment' (OP's words - not mine) is deemed as 'suitable' as the terms and conditions will obviously be different due to the 'temporary' nature of the role.

    It would be like a secondment, not a temporary contract. They would still have continual employment with the organisation, their redundancy pay would have increased (assuming that at some time in the 8 month period they passed another employment anniversary).


    Again, it should be - but is it?

    You have assumed this is the case - I have asked the questions if it is indeed the situation. Again, the OP has suggested he has been offered 'alternative employment' not a secondment. There could potentially be implications if this 'alternative employment' is refused, however, I would suggest that the OP gets the employer to clarify the situation in writing before making any decisions.

    If the company had acted reasonably, I would have no undue concerns, however, based on the OP's post, I would act cautiously on this.

    There may be no sinister intentions and it may just be my suspicious nature, but I would suggest the OP is content with the employers intentions prior to accepting any 'alternative employment'.


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