ESTA - Moral Turpitude

Kerazydave

Hi All,

Looking for some advice. (please don't go down the US Embassy route as that will just confuse me even more).

Filling out the ESTA application it speaks about;

• Convicted of crimes involving Moral Turpitude
• Violations relating to controlled substance
• two or more offences with aggregate confinement of five years
• Controlled substance trafficer
• Are you looking to commit or engage in criminal activity

Now at this stage I have two cautions for one incident

Common Assault which has a maximum jail term of 6 months
Section 5 Harrassment because I may have caused offence has no jail term.

Am I right in saying that the answers to those 5 bullet points is no?

Definition of non moral turpitude Assault is;

(simple) (i.e., any assault, which does not require an evil intent or depraved motive, although it may involve the use of a weapon, which is neither dangerous nor deadly)

Section 5 comes under a breach of the peace.

Just looking for confirmation really that I've not missed something glaringly obvious.

Kerazydave

test message to check if posts working properly this end.

whatusername

If you have a police caution you will have to declare it which meanss an embassy visit and application for a vise im afraid. You could at your own risk not declare it and face a potential return from the US airport but is it really worth the gamble?

Kerazydave

I'm not sure thats correct? It doesn't mention that on the VWP/ESTA at all? Please confirm were you've got this info (please don't say the US embassy wizard).

Fonz_2

Seriously - why not just speak to the embassy rather than relying on forums?

Kerazydave

Hi Fonz,

The embassy setup is not the same as the actual ESTA as far as I'm aware. ESTA is about Moral Turpitude and the embassy don't even mention Moral Turpitude. I believe the definition so it's more black and white.

My real question here relates to do the offences I listed come under moral turpitude or not.

stoneman

I wouldn't even mention it. The U.S. authorities have no access to the police national computer here and the only information they share is terrorist related (but you can see by recent events that they can't even do that) and maybe pedophile related convictions.
I wouldn't be surprised if the U.K. police are not even allowed to give out information on convictions due to the data protection act.

WestHamDaz

stoneman wrote: »

I wouldn't even mention it. The U.S. authorities have no assess to the police national computer here and the only information they share is terrorist related (but you can see by recent events that they can't even do that) and maybe pedophile related convictions.
I wouldn't be surprised if the U.K. police are not even allowed to give out information on convictions due to the data protection act.

I know 2 different people who both got into little bit of argy bargy and both got a slap on the wrists from the police. Similar circumstances (disagreement with someone else which resulted in fisticuffs) and similar punishments (convicted in court and given a fine and told to behave themselves in future) an in both circumstances both have kept their noses clean and havent been in any further trouble since their young and youthful days.

Both wanted to go to the States on holiday, one filled out their ESTA and was approved and had no problems entering the states, the other went to the US embassy and got turned down and isnt allowed to re-apply for another 5 years.

moonrakerz

whatusername wrote: »

If you have a police caution you will have to declare it which meanss an embassy visit and application for a vise im afraid. You could at your own risk not declare it and face a potential return from the US airport but is it really worth the gamble?

Not really true.

You can even be convicted of a crime - but if it doesn't come under "moral turpitude"
(what a wonderful phrase !) then you don't have to declare it.

For example:
"Assault (this crime is broken down into several categories, which involve moral turpitude):
Assault with intent to kill, commit rape, commit robbery or commit serious bodily harm
Assault with a dangerous or deadly weapon"

"Assault (simple) (i.e., any assault, which does not require an evil intent or depraved motive, although it may involve the use of a weapon, which is neither dangerous nor deadly)" NO moral turpitude involved

Kerazydave

My form says

Simple Caution

Section 39 - Assault by Beating (Battery) - just for the record there was no punches flying or anyone hit or anything like that.

Section 5 WORDS/BEHAVIOUR - HARASSMENT ALARM DISTRESS

All one incident.

ferf1223

there's a ton of info here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=846763&highlight=esta

And some folks who know their stuff - though one is no longer posting, unfortunately.

If you call the embassy they will just tell you that you need to apply for a visa...they're covering themselves in doing this I think.

Not sure if this helps at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

just realised you probably pasted part of your first post from there.