Dilemma - CSA or not??

alwayspuzzled

HappyMJ wrote: »

You could come to a private arrangement where he gives you £20 instead and that will make your childcare costs zero and his childcare costs will be reduced from £50 to £20. If he's sacrificing salary to get vouchers then he has reduced his costs to about £35 per week so you'll have to make the offer attractive as he has every right to pay the childcare provider directly as per your original agreement.

I think I worded my OP badly, the agreement was I would not claim formal CS through the courts or csa and he would pay me a sum of CM equal to half of the childcare etc costs. This was because he did not want to pay a set monthly figure, now he has decided to stop paying most of the CM to me and instead pay half directly to the school club. I realize that some might think that this is OK but when you average what he pays a year his weekly contribution is under 50% of the CSA calculator assesment. Surely its not up to him how CS should be spent.

My OH did actually do a lot of childcare while off work, but the contract with the club means that I have to pay for it used or not and there is a long waiting list if you leave and then rejoin.

jen_br

Personally I think you are being a tad out of order... its his right to use his Child care vouchers for child care.. I realize that you may be out of pocket but your getting the childcare and you are being a bit naughty if what im reading is your claiming lets say 100.00 for childcare and then getting 50.00 from him?when the total cost is 100.00? *figures made up for arguments sake*

If you want to go through CSA then fine but then expect all the other things like childcare expenses etc to stop He will ONLY be responsible for his payment every month.. Moaning will happen people vent and moan.. its a shame to involve the kids but it happens they over hear things or they get involved where they shouldn't

Now for your mother was he paying her 40.00 and were you paying her 40.00??? I doubt it chances are your mom just charged him right??

And if you go through the CSA or courts he still has the right to pay Child care through vouchers and in fact the CSA would not ask him to pay ANY child care just X amount of his wage.

alwayspuzzled

jen_br wrote: »

Personally I think you are being a tad out of order... its his right to use his Child care vouchers for child care.. I realize that you may be out of pocket but your getting the childcare and you are being a bit naughty if what im reading is your claiming lets say 100.00 for childcare and then getting 50.00 from him?when the total cost is 100.00? *figures made up for arguments sake*

If you want to go through CSA then fine but then expect all the other things like childcare expenses etc to stop He will ONLY be responsible for his payment every month.. Moaning will happen people vent and moan.. its a shame to involve the kids but it happens they over hear things or they get involved where they shouldn't

Now for your mother was he paying her 40.00 and were you paying her 40.00??? I doubt it chances are your mom just charged him right??

And if you go through the CSA or courts he still has the right to pay Child care through vouchers and in fact the CSA would not ask him to pay ANY child care just X amount of his wage.

If I was claiming through the CSA then I wouldn't expect anything else to be paid for but he would be paying double what he is now. To explain again he agreed to pay ME Child Maintance via a private agreement (which happens to be calculated against my costs rather than his wage) how is it being "a bit naughty" to claim childcare costs through tax credits? Are you suggesting all PWC should reduce their declared childcare costs by the amount they recieve in CM.

Re my moms costs, no she doesn't charge him £40, its £20 each and yes I do pay in either cash or shopping. He has been offered the option of arranging his own childcare for the school holidays but funnily enough hasn't come up with anything for less than £2 per child per day. Btw she gives each child an allowance of £5/week as the 'can I have' reduced dramatically when they are spending their 'own' money:)

HappyMJ

Not suggesting that at all... Personally I like your private arrangement to each pay half of all of the kids costs. Have you asked him for half of the costs of everyday clothing as well? Instead of asking just for half of the kids dinner money only how about adding half of the kids breakfast money and tea money as well. I gather you are paying all of that. Do the kids demand SKY TV? I'd ask him to pay half of that too if you have it. Your agreement is half the expenses of raising the kids so make sure you are asking for half of absolutely everything. The kids need broadband to learn from so ask him for half of that as well...I could go on...

LizzieS_2

alwayspuzzled wrote: »

If I was claiming through the CSA then I wouldn't expect anything else to be paid for but he would be paying double what he is now. To explain again he agreed to pay ME Child Maintance via a private agreement (which happens to be calculated against my costs rather than his wage) how is it being "a bit naughty" to claim childcare costs through tax credits? Are you suggesting all PWC should reduce their declared childcare costs by the amount they recieve in CM.

I did give you the benefit of the doubt as household income can affect the amount of childcare tax credits you get. It is clear now you charged him half the costs and then claimed your share from tax credits.

There is nothing naughty with what you did as overall he was gaining. But at the same time there is nothing naughty with what he has done either.

The issue is how you both made the arrangement over the figures - both are looking at it from different personal angles.

You do hold the ace ultimately though if the csa would charge him double what he was paying - it is his choice whether to negotiate what you want or risk having to pay more.

jen_br

how are you so sure how much CSA would charge him do you know his net income for SURE? and you know if he has a pension etc? Five years is a long time to be seperated from someone and i dont know what my ex of 5 yrs ago is making...

does he have any other family hes taking care of as in any more kids?

I feel you have a pretty open relationship i mean if the kids REALLY needed something it sounds like he would go half. if you go through CSA you will loose that openess

And yes i do feel that you are getting X amount directly for child care costs then it should be disclosed... you are basically saying to the govt your responsible for 100% of hte childcare and therefore getting tax criedts for it. When in fact you are responsible for HALF

and if you feel its not naughty then why are begrudging him for claiming Child care vouchers?? hes just trying to help himself..

it sounds like you never really set this out properly and thats what happens you can't move the goal posts because you have decided that the vouchers are not good for you?

You either need to get something in writting or go through the cSA but i think its sad that your going through the csa because he chooses to pay HIS half through vouchers which again the end result is the same your children get care

Moaning is moaning and as long as your getting that money then who cares.

As you said money is dire you realize how long the CSA will take to asses and he has the right not to pay you until the agreement has been placed?

Just weigh all the options.

kelloggs36

If you claim via the CSA then none of this income would be counted for tax credit purposes - so you could still claim up to 80% of the childcare costs yourself.

PlayingHardball

OP has been more then fair in the past and has been very flexible to the NRP. It sounds to me like the NRP is only looking after number 1 and not appreciating all of the added extras (like packing the suitcases for HIS holidays abroad with the kids), not to mention the fact he is paying much less then the CSA would assess him on.

I would try to negotiate one last time (give him a print out of the CSA maintenance calculator using the Government pay grade you believe he is on) and present it to him. Ask him to see things from your point (don't bring in your difficult family circumstances with your partner not working, this is only about his support for the kids, not your new financial difficulties)

At the end of the day, you have to do what is right by your children. I have only dealt with a NRP unwilling to privately negotiate (I did attempt), so my advice is always going to be 'go through the CSA' where you can. Your case is a clear cut and easy one for them to arrange and at the end of the day I believe he should be paying what is fair for his kids, and 20% net income is more than fair.

I applaud you for managing so far on a private arrangement, and best of luck, but remember you need to put your kids needs first.

jen_br

well he would get a discount for seeing the kids!

and don't forget those holidays cost money too!!

alwayspuzzled

jen_br wrote: »

how are you so sure how much CSA would charge him do you know his net income for SURE? and you know if he has a pension etc? Five years is a long time to be seperated from someone and i dont know what my ex of 5 yrs ago is making...

Local government have set pay scales. Yes hes in the employee pension scheme, and no I didn't ask for it to be considered in the split.

does he have any other family hes taking care of as in any more kids?
No

I feel you have a pretty open relationship i mean if the kids REALLY needed something it sounds like he would go half. if you go through CSA you will loose that openess

And yes i do feel that you are getting X amount directly for child care costs then it should be disclosed... you are basically saying to the govt your responsible for 100% of hte childcare and therefore getting tax criedts for it. When in fact you are responsible for HALF
I am responsible for 100% of childcare, he pays me CS which is worked out by costs directly related to the boys.

and if you feel its not naughty then why are begrudging him for claiming Child care vouchers?? hes just trying to help himself..
The fact I get tax credits is why I've been able to allow him to pay a low CS figure. By helping himself hes reducing the money I have left to bring up to boys.

it sounds like you never really set this out properly and thats what happens you can't move the goal posts because you have decided that the vouchers are not good for you?
I haven't moved any goal posts - last month he phoned to say he would like to keep the boys with him for an extra day over easter weekend and informed me as a "by the way" basically comes down to I have decided not to pay CS anymore instead I'll pay 1/2 of care fees thinking about it probably because he thinks once the oldest goes to senior school in sept then he'll not have to pay anything for him anymore.

You either need to get something in writting or go through the cSA but i think its sad that your going through the csa because he chooses to pay HIS half through vouchers which again the end result is the same your children get care

Moaning is moaning and as long as your getting that money then who cares.
I care when he is moaning to the boys, bear in mind these 'moans' are directly to the boys, not overheard conversation. At 11 & 8 I don't feel they should be involved such topics. Another classic was telling them they had to walk home because grandma was too lazy to drive them - this was when she got sick of being his taxi service and he was late picking them up because he'd been for a pint after work.

As you said money is dire you realize how long the CSA will take to asses and he has the right not to pay you until the agreement has been placed? From OH's experience only took a couple of weeks.

Just weigh all the options.

Weighing the options was the reason for my OP, I am finding that defending my position is helping me clarify things in my own mind:)