Moved from EON to EDF. Ripped off my EON on final bill

BeatTheSystem

All, please be careful when moving suppliers. They seem to have a very nasty habit of deliberately overestinating the final reading resulting in a massive unexpected bill.

Here are the facts!

Initiated a move from EON to EDF early march.

EON estimated (they could not be bothered to read the meters) on 16th or march.

They estimated for GAS a reading resulting in a charge of 1055 GBP for 41 days consumption averaging at 25.73 per day. My previous average for the previous 30 days I think was around 5.66.

To cut a long story short I have been overcharged by 850. There is simply no justifcation for this and I suspect it is a deliverate policy of theirs to maximise the amount taken probably as a punishment.

I have informed EDF and they have raised a dispute with EON as basically I am using EDF gas and EON have had the money for EONS gas.

To add insult to injury I wont get a refund for possibly 28 days as it takes the muppets and bother compaines this long to work out average consumption. It took me about a minute.

With the slight cockup on the electricity estimation too I had DD of 1300 taken from my account today putting me in the red. Luckily I have savings to cover this but should not have to move money about due to the suppliers incompetance.

Be careful. Maybe Direct debits are not a good idea!

minnie123

Could you not provide eon with edf's opening readings?

Personally I would always read my meter when switching to get an accurate closing bill.

Toomuchdebt

I don't understand how they can estimate a final bill-I have always had to provide a meter reading both to the old company and the one I am switching to.

BeatTheSystem

I could not provide a meter reading as I was abroad at the time. They overestimated the electricty by a few percent which is OK but they were grossly out on the gas.

I suppose it should not matter too much using an estimate if it it is reasonably close, but in my case it is quite clear they are either

a) completly incompetent
b) have a deliberate policy to overcharge on final readings

When a supplier takes over they typically dont mind a few units here or there as they do the same themeselves.

If the dispute was not raised by my new supplier basically I would not have a gas bill for about 5 months but this would penalise me as the EDF price per unit is less than the eon price per unit.

I think they are a dodgy bunch, the lot of them.

At some point in the not too distant future I intend to generate my own electricity and the lot of them can get stuffed.

minnie123

I'm a bit confused with this - how did the new supplier know when to start billing from without the opening readings? Surely you just need to provide EON with EDF's opening readings and have them amend the bill?

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi BeatTheSystem

I'm sorry we have closed your account to estimated meter readings.

When changing suppliers, it is the responsibility of the gaining supplier to provide the losing supplier with the readings they will use to open the new account.

These are then used by the losing supplier to close their old account. This is to ensure the customer is not charged twice for the same energy.

Sounds like EDF don't have actual readings to send us as they have raised what is known as an Agreed Reads Dispute. This is an industry wide process where, in the absence of actual readings, the two suppliers agree opening/closing readings. Again, to ensure you are not charged twice for the same energy.

I can't speak for EDF, but when we take over a supply we usually ask the customer for meter readings on the transfer date. However, as you were abroad at the time I can see why this may not have happened.

Once the opening/closing readings have been agreed between us, we will issue a revised final bill. All over-estimated charges will be refunded in full.

Again, I'm sorry you have received an estimated final bill but hope this gives an indication of what will happen from here on in.

Malc

BeatTheSystem

minnie123 wrote: »

I'm a bit confused with this - how did the new supplier know when to start billing from without the opening readings? Surely you just need to provide EON with EDF's opening readings and have them amend the bill?

When I agreed to move to the new supplier they told me they would take care of everything. This was important to me since I travel alot.

I was assuming they would do what they said they would do and read the meter.

They have gone ahead with the switch without a meter reading.

What really is annoying is that they have assumed a reading which is completly out of kilter with the average which is hence why I say they are either

a) imcompetent
b) have a policy of over charging in order to grab short term cash

BeatTheSystem

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

Hi BeatTheSystem

I'm sorry we have closed your account to estimated meter readings.

When changing suppliers, it is the responsibility of the gaining supplier to provide the losing supplier with the readings they will use to open the new account.

These are then used by the losing supplier to close their old account. This is to ensure the customer is not charged twice for the same energy.

Sounds like EDF don't have actual readings to send us as they have raised what is known as an Agreed Reads Dispute. This is an industry wide process where, in the absence of actual readings, the two suppliers agree opening/closing readings. Again, to ensure you are not charged twice for the same energy.

I can't speak for EDF, but when we take over a supply we usually ask the customer for meter readings on the transfer date. However, as you were abroad at the time I can see why this may not have happened.

Once the opening/closing readings have been agreed between us, we will issue a revised final bill. All over-estimated charges will be refunded in full.

Again, I'm sorry you have received an estimated final bill but hope this gives an indication of what will happen from here on in.

Malc

Malc

Thank you for replying and descrbing the process on behalf of the shambles that is EON.

The issue I have is that I am seriously out of pocket and EON are not taking responsibility for this, having already lodged a dispute via EDF they are refusing to take the matter further.

I have a clear case for not just a small but massive overpayment.

EON have details of my past usage and cleary are able to make a better estimate than the one they did, even considering the higher than average winter usage they are 4 times over the average.

So my question is this

a) are eon really that imcompetent
b) was this a deliberate attempt to take as much cash of me to hold in their bank account to earn interest.

I know that I will get my money back but 28 days is completly unacceptable and an overpayment of more than 850 would give many people serious financial hardship.

It is also quite remarkable that the energy companies need to pay people like yourself to head off critisim on this forum.

Regards

BeatTheSystem

kjsmith7

Hmmm. I would be exceptionally displeased with an overpayment that large, that is for sure. Your consumption does seem high, however. In your first post, you mention there was a direct debit of £1,300 taken for the electricity, and in a subsequent post you mentioned that the electricity was only a few per cent over-estimated. If it was as much as 10%, that would still be a bill of over £1,000. Was that due to a debit on the account or just that quarters usage? Just a question, because if you are using that much electricity but you are away a lot I'd get that looked into. Or, it could be that someone else was at home who could have read the meter in your absence?

Whilst I can see why you're upset about the overpayment (as everyone would be), I have to side on the side of the suppliers in some aspects. When you move supplier, if you aren't there to let someone in to read the meter (because your meter is inside your property/in an area they cannot get to without the householder present), you are not due a quarterly bill (as meter readers are only instructed to read when you are due a quarterly statement) or you read your own meter (I understand you could not do this because you were abroad), how else are they to open your account?

As you travel a lot, you may have been abroad for many months - does this mean you should continue paying a direct debit to Eon as they were unable to finalise your account, whilst at the same time paying a direct debit to EDF because they are technically your supplier? Or should you just pay Eon? Or should you just pay EDF? How do you propose suppliers do things differently?

Obviously, with the introduction of smart meters (that read themselves) this problem with be non-existent, but in the mean time, what do you propose? I know it's the size of the over-estimation that bothers you, but if EDF have no recent data from your property or are using out-of-date data, or average data for the type/size of property, or average data for your street/area/etc., this could be what was causing the problem. When you acquired a quote from them, it is likely they inputted the amount of kWh this quote related to (for instance, 30,000kWh gas and 7,000kWh electricity = £XX.XX per year) into their system, which could have prompted a massive overestimation, perhaps.

As Malc has stated, it is the new supplier that has estimated your readings, EDF, and provided those readings to Eon. Why would EDF purposefully overestimate to land cash in Eon's bank account? As you have stated, they don't mind a few units, but paying one of their competitors over £800 is probably not their intention.

I think it's good that Eon and a few others have a representative on the forums - a lot of incorrect assumptions are made and good advice is given by Malc and the others that sorts a lot of customers' enquiries out much quicker than if they phoned or wrote a letter in.

BeatTheSystem

Thanks for your reply.

kjsmith7 wrote: »

Hmmm. I would be exceptionally displeased with an overpayment that large, that is for sure. Your consumption does seem high, however. In your first post, you mention there was a direct debit of £1,300 taken for the electricity, and in a subsequent post you mentioned that the electricity was only a few per cent over-estimated. If it was as much as 10%, that would still be a bill of over £1,000. Was that due to a debit on the account or just that quarters usage? Just a question, because if you are using that much electricity but you are away a lot I'd get that looked into. Or, it could be that someone else was at home who could have read the meter in your absence?

I may have not been clear. I am dual fuel, the 1300 was for both gas and electricity. The electricity was estimated within acceptable accuracy. The gas element was not. The gas element of the bill was 850 more than it was supposed to be.

I am on monthly direct debit. Long term average usages is about 80 PCM each for gas and electricity. So in effect what should have been a 200 bill (the final bill was for 5 weeks not 4). was over 1300.

Our consumption is a little higher than average.

I could not rely on my wife to read the meter in my absense.

kjsmith7 wrote: »

Whilst I can see why you're upset about the overpayment (as everyone would be), I have to side on the side of the suppliers in some aspects. When you move supplier, if you aren't there to let someone in to read the meter (because your meter is inside your property/in an area they cannot get to without the householder present), you are not due a quarterly bill (as meter readers are only instructed to read when you are due a quarterly statement) or you read your own meter (I understand you could not do this because you were abroad), how else are they to open your account?

The meter is on the outside of the property.

They should not open the account until there is a 'real' reading.

I guess its your right to take the side of a supplier, but be careful, they are a law unto themselves.

kjsmith7 wrote: »

As you travel a lot, you may have been abroad for many months - does this mean you should continue paying a direct debit to Eon as they were unable to finalise your account, whilst at the same time paying a direct debit to EDF because they are technically your supplier? Or should you just pay Eon? Or should you just pay EDF? How do you propose suppliers do things differently?

Suppliers in my opinion should take a physical reading and not rely on customer readings. The date of move should be the meter reading date. this would give the new suppliers an incentive to get a real reading asap.

kjsmith7 wrote: »

Obviously, with the introduction of smart meters (that read themselves) this problem with be non-existent, but in the mean time, what do you propose? I know it's the size of the over-estimation that bothers you, but if EDF have no recent data from your property or are using out-of-date data, or average data for the type/size of property, or average data for your street/area/etc., this could be what was causing the problem. When you acquired a quote from them, it is likely they inputted the amount of kWh this quote related to (for instance, 30,000kWh gas and 7,000kWh electricity = £XX.XX per year) into their system, which could have prompted a massive overestimation, perhaps.

If it was edf that made the estimation, they had nothing tangible to work on other than the information that I gave them duing the account opening. My declared usage is not a meter reading. The estimation can only come from historical data and known previous readings, edf did not have these readings so how could they 'come up with a number' It make no sense to use a new suppliers estimation since it is impossible for them to provide one.
Smart meters will hopefully solve a lot of these issues.

kjsmith7 wrote: »

As Malc has stated, it is the new supplier that has estimated your readings, EDF, and provided those readings to Eon. Why would EDF purposefully overestimate to land cash in Eon's bank account? As you have stated, they don't mind a few units, but paying one of their competitors over £800 is probably not their intention.

I agree I dont think EDF would want to do this and they are handlign the dispute, which make me suspicious that EON are the ones that made the estimation

kjsmith7 wrote: »

I think it's good that Eon and a few others have a representative on the forums - a lot of incorrect assumptions are made and good advice is given by Malc and the others that sorts a lot of customers' enquiries out much quicker than if they phoned or wrote a letter in.

I agree. I am sure Malc is a very nice person, but it is clear to me that the suppliers motives of have company reps on this forum is one of damage limitation since they know there service can sometimes be poor.
Again my biggest issues is that whoevever made the estimation was way of kilter, which can only be numerical error or a deliberate policy. It would be interesting to access suppliers accounts to see if a pattern could be established in supplier moving instances.

Cheers

Beat(en)ByTheSystem

kjsmith7

I do apologise, misunderstood your consumption!! I was thinking - god, that's huge consumption haha.

You also raise some very interesting points - your meter is outside, so EDF would have asked the meter readers to go to the property if you had been due a quarterly statement. Obviously, you'll find out roughly when they attend from subsequent bills, but this is something to take up with EDF.

The only issue I can see with forcing suppliers to take accurate readings themselves before an account can be activated, is the problem with "serial switchers" - people who switch every three or six months or whenever to get cashback or jump onto purportedly cheaper deals. Also, people who move house would also need their meters reading. This would increase costs, which like any other service (BT, Sky, etc. etc.) would be passed onto the consumer somehow!

Also, a lot of people have their meter(s) inside (as mine are in my new house), and it costs a lot of money (the consumer pays) to have the meters moved outside, or it may not be applicable (our house goes straight out onto the street at the front, so there would be no where to put the meter as the back has a gate, which is obviously kept locked). It may be that the meter readers would come around to read the meter, but the occupier would be at work/out and about/travelling, etc. so I don't think that would work either, as you yourself are switching to save money, so if the account could not be opened until you returned and were available for someone to read the meter (if it was inside) then you would be stuck with the other supplier paying higher rates. I don't think it would be an impetus for the new supplier to send someone round ten times to read the meter to get everything up and running either, because for them it's pennies even though for you it's pounds.

Roll on smart meters, is what I say!!! I hope you receive your moneys back soon - you may be able to forcibly claim the money back via your bank with what is called an 'Indemnity Claim Form', where an incorrect amount was taken or you were not aware it was taken (and this can be done with any Direct Debit as per the DD guarantee) - the bank automatically refund the money to your account and is paid to the bank via the supplier. Any associated interest or charges are also refunded, and it's usually done within 3-5 working days. May be an option for you to stop this from dragging on?