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canonalberic

Hello there.

This is my situation: my wife, bless her, has run up considerable credit card debts, not entirely without my knowledge, but assuring me that everything was under control. Now we're in a mess and have to do something to get out of it. We owe around 40 00 and are paying out about 1175 on non-priority debts (the cards) each month.

I've been through the CCCS online debt remedy programme, and it seems to show that we don't have enough income to meet regular outgoings, let alone pay creditors, so we're going to have to write to them asking if they'll hold off with a token payment while we get sorted.

Now then, there are factors to consider here:

1) we're unusual in that in our monthly expenses we pay £750 a month for school fees (yeah, I know) for our two kids, and I've got to say that that's the one thing I won't compromise on. I'd rather lose the house than see them lose the future that I've worked for them to have. Does this affect things? We'd cut everything else to the bone to keep that on.

2) A hopeful thing: my mrs is making up for her misdeeds by training to be a maths teacher (irony), and if all goes well she should start earning in sept 2011, which will be a real boost to our finances. Will creditors be more likely to give us space if they are told that we'll have more money in a bit?

3) should it be her who writes the letters to the creditors if it's her name on the credit card (even if it's my name on the CCCS budgeting docs?

I'd be really, really grateful for advice.

david.l_4

hi i had a phone oppiontment this morning run through my debts and the cccs are sending my income a expenditure forms to send to my creaditors to ask them to lower the payments does this mean a dont fit the criteria for a dmp as i thought it was the cccs that would do this? thanks.

CCCS_Sarah

Phil-1956 wrote: »

Hi,

I've been in touch & have got the advice pack thankyou. In the advice pack I noticed the following under the section about legal action creditors can take :

The amount they tell you to pay may be more than what you offered. If you cannot afford it, you can ask to change it within fourteen days by writing a letter to the court asking for ‘redetermination’.
If the court accepts this, you will pay the agreed amount until you have repaid
the debt.
If the court rejects this and you are unable to pay the amount they have asked for, it is likely you will default on the county court judgment.
It is only at this stage, and not before, that your creditor can apply to the court for a charging order, an attachment of earnings order or a warrant of execution.
The original CCj was issued on 24/02. I sent off a redetermination request on the 3/03 with a cheque for £35. This was returned with a letter dated 08/03 stating that the fee was not payable as the request had been received within the time for reconsideration. The original reconsideration was on the 6/04 but was adjourned until 26th May due to my wife's death. At this hearing the judge did say that he would consider a charging order on the 26th as "I was by then in technical default of the original CCJ.

Reading the part in the advice pack this is not the case. Is their any case law I can refer the judge to ????
I would also be grateful for any other advice on opposing the charging order. (There is no equity, the bank could have asked for security on the loan originally but didn't & there are other creditors to consider too )(I have made then a without prejudice" full & final offer of approx 38p in the £ in the meantime but they are much more likely to accept this if they don't have a charging order. (I can make the same offer to the other creditors too)

Technically the district Judge is correct because even though you issued a redetermination request in good time, the Judgment term has been defaulted upon. I understand that this is beyond your control and the judges.

I would be asking the Judge to consider the redetermination request on its own merit. You must do this before he looks at any other application.
If the Judge says he will make the redetermination to stay at instalment but at a lesser amount then he should not then be allowing an interim order neither. This is because the order is made under s71(1) County Courts Act 1984.

Below is some text you to use in your defence - The bits in red need to be changed to your individual circumstances

On *****2004, I exercised my right to ask for the rate of payment to be re-determined by a District Judge under 14.13 Civil Procedure Rules. This application was made within the time limit laid down by the Rules. The court has not yet made a final decision about the rate of repayment. It will be considered on st r 200*.
17. Meanwhile, and whilst the judgment was still subject to re-determination, *** applied for a Charging Order on my home and the Court made an interim Charging Order on the th 2010 I submit that the Court should not have made an Interim Charging Order whilst the judgment was subject to re-determination. For a charging order to be made, there has to be default on payment under the terms of the judgment (Mercantile Credit v Ellis [1987]). It could not be said that I was in default under the terms of the judgment. I am told by the CCCS that this is because following the re-determination, the final repayment terms would be ordered and a fresh judgment made. (N30 (3) ). On the th July the court had not had the opportunity to consider the final terms of payment and make an order. Therefore, it cannot be said that I was in default of the order.

1. Section 1(5) of the Charging Order Act 1979 states that “In deciding whether to make a charging order, the court shall consider all the circumstances of the case and, in particular, any evidence before it as to – (a) the personal circumstances of the debtor, and (b) whether any other creditor of the debtor would be likely to be unduly prejudiced by the making of the order’.

2. The discretion of the court is confirmed in Roberts Petroleum Ltd v Bernard Kenny Ltd [as summarised in the Civil Procedure White Book p1495] which confirmed that:
(1) The question of whether an interim order should be made final is one for the discretion of the court.
(4) In exercising its discretion the Court must take into account all the relevant circumstances whether they arose before or after the interim order.
(5) The Court should exercise its discretion equitably having regard to the interests of all parties involved including other unsecured creditors, as well as those of the judgment creditor and the judgment debtor.

3. I request therefore that the court be minded not to grant the charging order as the circumstances and history of this case show that this would be unfair to myself.

4. Mr has ** other unsecured creditors. To whom he owes in the region of £ Most of these have accepted the token offer made. This also includes?????.

5. I request that the court does not grant a charging order, as this would prejudice all the other creditors.

6. Further and in the alternative, should the court make the charging final, I request that the court suspend the Charging Order on payment of £x a month under section 71(2) County Courts Act 1984. A financial statement is attached. (Exhibit?)

CCCS_Sarah

nolongerindenial wrote: »

I am posting this as advised on my debt free diary as I am not sure what to do next....

ok I think I am working down to hitting rock bottom......

I havent answered the phone to an uknown number for over 3 weeks - mobile or landline which is very bad considering I am self employed and one of the missed calls could have been potential business.

The stress is really starting to get to me - to the point when an unknown caller at the door just knocked and I nearly poo'd myself at the thought of who they might be. I live in fear of what the postman might bring and fear I can not provide for my family.

Tried to sort out working tax credits - and basically the incompetant people are giving me the run around as Im self employed and they want confirmed figures for my current income + last years income....

I used to live in hope that I could get in control through hard work and get all of this paid off, whereas now all i seam to be doing is battling more and more and getting nothing back for all my fight.

I am running out of assets to realise into money quickly - which is bugging me no end. I just feel like breaking down and crying all of the time, I have never been so demotivated.

I keep trying to pick up the phone to CCCS or CAB to help me, but am at the stage I dont have the strength anymore - I just feel permanently exhausted although I hide it from my 4 month old - my wife knows how I feel and is feeling the same.

Hello,

Thank you for your message.

Picking up the phone to talk to someone can be very difficult, but you will be made to feel at ease. The counsellor you will speak to will not judge, just help you look at the options and what your next step is. We are here to help!

If you would like an appointment, please call our helpline free on 0800 138 1111.

Sarah

CCCS_Sarah

eckythump wrote: »

Hi
we have been on a dmp with cccs for a while and the payment is due out on the 10th by D.D
I work part time and today my pay was down by 3 days as my manager forgot to put 3 holiday days through.
this means we have insufficient funds for the D.D,I have just cancelled the D.D as I did not want it to be returned and to incur bank charges.
as the cccs offices are closed over the weekend I just wanted to know what we should do.
I have a p.o slip left over from when we initally set up the plan,should I pay what we can with that?
sorry for the long post but I will spend the weekend worrying otherwise.

Hello,

I would recommend that you give our client support department a call, as they will need to take a look at your account.

Sarah

CCCS_Sarah

1Moneymonster wrote: »

as a family man with my own home i share with my fiancee, i am very concerned about the future, over 5 years ago i was given a mortgage which was 10.7% interest only, which i was mis sold, i complained to the FSA, and i had £1700 commission paid to me by the IFA, but i still needed to pay the mortgage at one point raising to 1200 per month for a £174000 home, with interst rates now at a low i have a mortgage that is affordable because of the interst rates. my mortgage payments and the struggle i had for over three years paying the 1200. my credit has been affected because of missed payments etc, I cant change my mortgage because my credit score is poor . i am now in debt because of this . the banks get bailed out they wont lend to me and i cant get a re-mortgage at a great rate because of my credit! myself the tax payer has bailed the banks out where is justice can anyone really help,:(

Hello,

Thank you for your message.

I would recommend that you have a telephone appointment with the CCCS and then we can help you put together a detailed financial statement and look at your options.

During your appointment with your counsellor, mention to them about the rate of interest you are paying on your mortgage and then may be able to refer you to an independent broker to see if you can get a better deal.

If you would like an appointment please call 0800 138 1111.


Regards
Sarah

CCCS_Sarah

emvic wrote: »

i have getting myself in a bit of a vicious circle, I have borrowed money from wonga.com,, started of with £100 in jan now i am upto £700 i have had to use it like an overdraft, where i am having to rely on it each month, I dont want to be on like this, but i cant afford to pay it all back and that its, any advise on whats the best way around it, I have been really silly getting involve in this mess,,,,,, xx

Hello,

Thank you for your message.

Do you pay by direct debit? You need to try and cancel this payment and come to an arrangement about the outstanding amount. You will need to put together a detailed financial statement and see how much you can realistically afford to pay.

If you need a hand completing a financial statement, please call our helpline free on 0800 138 1111. Once we can see how much you have left over to pay your debts then we can see what your options are.

Sarah

CCCS_Sarah

Supratad wrote: »

Hello first post here.
My wife and I have been in a DMP withthe CCCS for about 6 years now, we pay over £1100 a month to several creditors, and have thus far paid off some £60k.
However, I have as of this month, been made redundant, which means a massive drop in income until I can find another job. I have not yet informed the CCCS.
Reviewing our finances, we can make changes to the extent where my wife's salary and my impending Jobseekers Allowance would allow us to cover our outgoings and possibly leave about £200 per month for the CCCS DMP.

My question is, will our debtors accept such a drop in payments for however long it takes me to find a new equal job (professional - architect) or will they force bankruptcy?
If I am made bankrupt I will be automatically struck off and thus no longer able to work in my profession, and of course no longer able to make such paybacks. Most likely we would lose the house and all possessions and be up the creek.

There are other options such as selling one car for around £13K which may allow a year in this recession to wait for the markets to pick up and for me to find work again, while maintaining the current payments to the CCCS.

There is some equity in the house, but as we have been managing to pay back our debts for some time now and maintain a status quo, obviously we are reluctant to up-sticks and downsize at this point in our lives.

Hello,

Thank you for your post and welcome to the boards.

This is something that is out of your control, I would recommend that we call our client support department as soon as possible so that they can update your budget and discuss your different options.

It’s not very common for a creditor to make a client bankrupt, so I would not worry too much about this. If you ever received something called a statutory demand then you would need to seek advice.

How much do you have left to pay? Selling or downsizing the car is an option. If you had a lump sum to pay off the debts then you could look at making full and final settlements, this is a way of offering your creditors a reduced amount to clear the debts.

Sarah

CCCS_Sarah

FlipsLDC wrote: »

Hi There, Quick question, We have sent all the DMP information back to yourselves and posted the letters informing our creditors that we are entering a DMP with yourselves. Over the weekend though we have received letters from 2 Creditors stating they will visit us this Thursday at our House. What can we do to stop this? they say to ring if this is inconvient. Any advice would be great as as much as I know this is our fault and want to repay as much as possible I really want to avoid Debt Collectors coming to the door,
Thanks

Hello,

Sounds like a little bit of a collections tactic to me. If a collector did come to the door then this is not a bailiff and they do not have the rights of a bailiff, so you can just ask them to leave. Creditors often say they will send someone round but this it’s not very often that they do.

You do not need to justify yourself to a creditor, they will soon be getting the proposals from the CCCS and that is all the information they will need.

Sarah

Phil-1956

CCCS_Sarah wrote: »

Technically the district Judge is correct because even though you issued a redetermination request in good time, the Judgment term has been defaulted upon. I understand that this is beyond your control and the judges.

I would be asking the Judge to consider the redetermination request on its own merit. You must do this before he looks at any other application.
If the Judge says he will make the redetermination to stay at instalment but at a lesser amount then he should not then be allowing an interim order neither. This is because the order is made under s71(1) County Courts Act 1984.

Below is some text you to use in your defence - The bits in red need to be changed to your individual circumstances

On*****2004, I exercised my right to ask for the rate of payment to be re-determined by a District Judge under 14.13 Civil Procedure Rules. This application was made within the time limit laid down by the Rules. The court has not yet made a final decision about the rate of repayment. It will be consideredon st r 200*.
17. Meanwhile, and whilst the judgment was still subject to re-determination,***applied for a Charging Order on my home and the Court made an interim Charging Order on theth 2010 I submit that the Court should not have made an Interim Charging Order whilst the judgment was subject to re-determination. For a charging order to be made, there has to be default on payment under the terms of the judgment (Mercantile Credit v Ellis [1987]). It could not be said that I was in default under the terms of the judgment. I am told by the CCCS that this is because following the re-determination, the final repayment terms would be ordered and a fresh judgment made. (N30 (3) ). Onthe th July the court had not had the opportunity to consider the final terms of payment and make an order. Therefore, it cannot be said that I was in default of the order.

1. Section 1(5) of the Charging Order Act 1979 states that “In deciding whether to make a charging order, the court shall consider all the circumstances of the case and, in particular, any evidence before it as to – (a) the personal circumstances of the debtor, and (b) whether any other creditor of the debtor would be likely to be unduly prejudiced by the making of the order’.

2. The discretion of the court is confirmed in Roberts Petroleum Ltd v Bernard Kenny Ltd [as summarised in the Civil Procedure White Book p1495] which confirmed that:
(1) The question of whether an interim order should be made final is one for the discretion of the court.
(4) In exercising its discretion the Court must take into account all the relevant circumstances whether they arose before or after the interim order.
(5) The Court should exercise its discretion equitably having regard to the interests of all parties involved including other unsecured creditors, as well as those of the judgment creditor and the judgment debtor.

3. I request therefore that the court be minded not to grant the charging order as the circumstances and history of this case show that this would be unfair to myself.

4. Mr has**other unsecured creditors. To whom he owes in the region of£ Most of these have accepted the token offer made. This also includes?????.

5. I request that the court does not grant a charging order, as this would prejudice all the other creditors.

6. Further and in the alternative, should the court make the charging final, I request that the court suspend the Charging Order on payment of£x a month under section 71(2) County Courts Act 1984. A financial statement is attached. (Exhibit?)

Thanks ever so much.

Their hasn't actually been a charging order or interim charging order. It's just that Nat West's solicitor said that they wan't one & the judge said he would consider this at the (adjourned) redetermination. (He stated he could do this as I was in default of the orginal judgement).
I take it I just alter the above to fit the circumstances. If I can can I ask a couple more questions?
Should I send this to the court before the hearing or take it on the day ?
The judge wanted an updated income & expenditure (it has obviously changed as a result of my wifes death) should i send that to the court before hand or take it on the day.
My budget with CCCS indicated that I can only offer £1 as a token payment arrangement. My original offer was the amount I was paying on the DMP I was on (£46 per month no payments missed). What should I now offer ?
I have in the mean time made an offer of Full & Final settlement of approx 38p in the £ (after my appointment with CCCS) to the solicitors headed "without prejudice". - They have not replied for two weeks now. Should I supply the judge with this information. (I will receive some life assurance & will be looking at an Lump Sum IVA with a similar amount to the other creditors)
Is it also relevant that their is no equity in the house & that Nat west chose to offer an unsecured loan rather than secured when the loan was made.

Finally the amount of the total judgement is for £29,000 approx which includes interest that was front loaded. The original loan of £25,000 was taken out two years ago over 7 years. According to a default notice recieved from Nat West on 08/06/2009 the net amount owed was £24,372 which included a rebate of £4,776.04. Is their any mileage in pointing this out ?



Your help is appreciated