SDLT1 Land Transaction Return Form Advice

chaotic_j

Hello all.

I am buying a house and I appointed an online conveyancer recently.

Their quote did not include completion of an SDLT form. I looked at the form and comments on this forum/the web and decided to attempt to fill it in myself to make a saving as they wanted to charge over £50 to complete it for me.

I've just spent some time going through the form, writing down my deduced answers in notepad on my PC and anything that I'm not sure of with the idea that I would call the number on the form which it says to call "if you need help with any part of this return or with anything in the guidance notes".

I've just called the number and I'm pretty annoyed to be honest, the woman at the other end wouldn't give a straight answer to the first couple of questions I asked which were pretty basic, she spoke very quietly and very quickly I was struggling to take in what she was saying.

She told me that they cannot help me with codes etc as it is a self-assessed tax and I need to figure out what to put myself. Basically she couldn't wait to get me off the phone and I said so you are a talking version of the guidelines which she pretty much agreed with!

I'm hoping someone on the forum might be able to advise me, I don't think this should be too complicated to fill in.

My queries are as follows;

• The online conveyancing solicitors have obtained the SDLT 1 form for me and posted it to me but they have sent it to me FOLDED, its a green and white manual form - the woman at HMRC couldn't tell me whether it would be rejected or not as it is folded - guidelines and form say not to fold it so I am guessing it will be rejected, so I need to obtain another one - correct?
• Question 2 - I'm not sure which code to choose here. It is a 160 year old, 999 year leasehold property. Would I choose Code "A"? because an existing lease is being assigned to me?
• Question 3 - Again I'm not sure which code to choose here. The lease specifies a yearly rent, it is in pounds, shilling and pence. Would I choose Code "LG"? beause it is a long leasehold with rent specified in the lease?
• Question 5 - I think I should put "No" here. The covenants in the lease don't look like they would affect the value. It is just regarding rent, repairs to buildings erected and suchlike.
• Question 8 - What the heck does this mean in English?
• Question 9 - The purchase price is under the threshold for stamp duty, I assume I should write "No" here.
• Question 14 - As above, purchase price is below threshold so 0% stamp duty, what do I write here? "0"?
• Question 15 - I'm assuming this will be "0" and a cross in the box underneath marked "No"?
• Question 17 - There are 3 dates in the leasehold information, one which the abstract of the lease was written, one later date which the lease appears to have been executed and approved by some bishop :rotfl: and then one last later date after that where the leaseholder presented himself at some manor court. I'm assuming the correct date will be the one which the lease seems to have been executed and approved?
• Question 18 - I'm assuming this is the answer to Question 17 + 999 years?
• Question 19 - I'm assuming I should leave this blank?
• Question 20 - The yearly rent is £11.9s.2d which I make £11.46 in decimal money. Rounded up to the nearest pound would be £12 - does this sound correct? I'm asssuming the date here would be as per Question 18?
• Question 21 - 25 - I'm assuming that for Question 21 there will be no VAT on the rent so I enter "0" here? The guidelines don't actually say what to put if there is no VAT. The Question 22-25 depend on one of the earlier codes which I'm slightly unclear on.
• Question 31 - Where can I find the NLPG UPRN - the guidelines don't tell me? It just says to write it down if it is "readily available"? It might be but I don't know where to look.
• Question 37 - It says to put the vendors first name(s) - do I put their first name and middle name here? Or just their first name?
• Question 43 - I don't have a reference, the only reference I have is the solicitors first and last names, should I write this here if it will fit, or leave blank?
• Question 53 - Same as Question 37.
• Question 58 - Find out off my sol what they want me to choose here.
• Question 59 - Find out off my sol what they want me to choose here.
• Question 63 - Same as Question 43.

Quite a list I know! Phew! I am sure these are dead easy to do if you've done them before, most of the above I'm fairly sure but not 100% on my deduced answers, so some confirmation that I'm right (or if I'm wrong) would be fantastic please!

Lastly I don't want any comments about I should have paid for my solicitor to fill the form out.. this is a moneysaving forum and I am also filling out myself on the basis if they got it wrong I'd still be responsible so I may as well fill it out myself!

Thanks in advance! :beer:

chaotic_j

Hello all.

Just to update, I've got the form completed myself now. Had a brew and looked at it again carefully - reasonably straightforward, all done and dusted what a load of old proverbial though and not at all impressed with HMRC!

Anyone needs any advice on SDLT 1 form drop me a PM will try my best.

Cheers.

timmyt

so you hve an sdlt5 now that you can give your lawyer? did you need a mortgage to fund your purchase as no way would I let a client fill in such a form. I am duty bound to get it stamped on behalf of the lender as you could have put anything in it and got it wrong.

you went cheap and used an online lawyer, goodness knows whether the legals were done throughly for you.

G_M

Come on Timmy - you're a solicitor... or not? Chap comes on a moneysaving forum, asks some fairly straightforward (for a solicitor) questions, and you slag him off.

If all you can do is repeat your endless mantra, stop posting. If you have something helpful to contribute (you do occassionally!) then post it!

Well done chaotic for completing it.

new_home_owner_3

you can download the forms direct, lets be honest you aint got to be a rocket scientist to fill them out, and the mans saved himself 50 pound so great.....

timmyt

don't use online lawyers - basic - they'll have as much respect for your property deal as you clearly don't yourself

law needs to be done by a qualified or senior/experienced practitioner, not a headset Charlie

we are always correcting shoddy conveyancer mistakes or we end up buying a property for a client where had the owner had a decent lawyer in the first place the deal would not end up with issues and be quicker

but hey, if you want cheap then you get crap.....very few exceptions as corners are cut to get a low price. Tesco value and Tesco finest. the quaity is not the same, but heck I got it cheap.....do the pinch test on toilet rolls....cheap value rolls but nothing on the spindle

god can you imagine a Lidl value range ofproduct ...now think online conveyancers

ok its late and I am tired but there is a decent message of warning in there...pay for your service and you wont regret it

G_M

Apart from anything else, it's not law - it's tax form-filling! OK, yes, it's a law in that the form HAS to be completed, but it aint conveyancing. It's the tax bit that follows conveyancing.

But anyway - this is a MONEYSAVING website. Self-completion of a tax form like SDLT seems to me a perfectly acceptable option to SAVE SOME MONEY. Whether included in a more expensive solicitor's overall service, or charged as an extra by a cheaper conveyancer, if you DIY the SDLT you can save yourself money, which is why people are here.

Richard_Webster

Like TimmyT I can't imagine why any solicitor allows a buyer client who is getting a mortgage to fill out the form themselves.

From a practical point of view the cost of the time spent explaining to the client how to fill the form in (or explaining that you are not going to explain how to fill it in) would outweigh the advantages of gleaning another £50-£80 in costs.

I just do it and don't charge extra for it - it is a lot easier - the long post from OP illusrates how complicated it is for the average lay person.

loopyanna

Another solicitor giving her tuppence worth here. I don't charge for it, it's an inclusive part of my overall fee and i would never dream of advising a client to do it themselves to save £50. Good on you Chaotic for giving it a go, and you have saved yourself £50, i do wonder about the implications with your lender (if you have one though...) If so have you checked with them that they have no objections to you having completed this without legal advice?

Richard_Webster

Another solicitor giving her tuppence worth here. I don't charge for it, it's an inclusive part of my overall fee and i would never dream of advising a client to do it themselves to save £50.

I am not a her but a him!

If OP is getting a mortgage the solicitors will have to check the form anyway because they cannot use the mortgage money from the lender unless they know that the transfer to the buyer will be registered and it can't be registered without the form being submitted and accepted by HMRC and the resultant certificate being produced by them.

So if the form is filled in wrong the solicitor could get sued by the mortgage lender if he has completed the transaction without being able to get a certificate in form SDLT5 from HMRC and he can't do that if the buyer has filled in the form wrongly.

As to the queries:

The manual form shouldn't be folded because it may not go through HMRC's scanner. So you need to get another one from your solicitors who shouldn't have folded it when they sent it to you and should have told you not to fold it.

Q.2 Code "A"
Q.3. Code "LG"
Q.5 Can't be sure - would depend on the covenants, but normally for a Victorian House lease the answer would be "No".
Q.8 Very unlikely there would have been an option - they are used by people selling land for development where the buyer won't want to buy if he doesn't get his planning permission but equally wants to be able to make the seller sell if he does get it. Normal sales and purchases wouldn't use options so normally answer would be "No"
Q.9 Put "No"
Q.14 Put "0"
Q.15 Put "0" and a cross in the "No" box about whether any interest is being paid.
Q.17 None of those three dates. The lease will be 999 years from a date which more often than not is nothing to do with any of those dates but typically is backdated to a a quarter day. You will have to wade through the body of the lease to find the date the 999 years started. If the title is regsitered and you have a copy of the leasehold title register in the HIP it should give "Short Particulars of the Lease under which the Lands is held". It will then give "Date xx/yy/18ZZ" - that is not the date you want. It then says "Term" - "999 years from AA/BB/18QQ" - that's the commencement date.
Q.18 The day before 999 years + so if the lease commenced on 25th March 1850 then it would end on 24th March 2849.
Q.19 Leave blank
Q.20 Round the ground rent (and if the ground rent has been apportioned between a number of houses within the one lease (which may well have been the case as £11.46 is quite high for one house) the you put in the amount per house). End date would be as Q.18
QQ21-25 Ignore - they are irrelevant or only apply to new leases.
Q.31 You are not the only one who can't easily find the UPRN. It isn't essential so just leave blank.
Q.37 Put vendor's first and middle names in (unless there isn't space - in which case you may have miss a middle name out).
Q.43 Your solicitor will have had letters from the seller's solicitors with their reference on - but if you don't know it just put the seller's names.
Q58-59 You will have to ask your solicitor, but to be naughty I would put your address down and not authorise the solicitors to handle correspondence on your behalf. They will then get it in the neck from the lender if they have used the money from the lender and the title hasn't been registered because they have got you to complete the form and not checked it! See my comment at ## below.
Q.63 If you don't have a reference - because any letters from HMRC about SDLT are likely to be about this property - whereas for a solicitor it could refer to any number of properties - then just ignore it or enter some random combination of letters and numbers just for fun!


## The firms that make the charge optional in the sense that the buyer can complete the form themselves still have to check the form, but trying to con buyers by not making this charge obvious to start with they end up being stuck with checking the form for nothing. They obviously hope that you will happily pay the extra £50 plus VAT or whatever their fee is, especially after they have told you (if you ask) how complicated the form is - so in a way I agree that by making it optional they have their comeuppance later.

You could almost deliberately make a hash of it and see whether they check it. If they do and they tell you it is wrong then they can't very well charge for checking it as they gave you the option in the first place or did they say they would charge if you didn't fill it in right? Check their small print minutely about that one

TimmyT and I would say that it serves them right for not quoting a realistic charge including doing this work in the first place!

James_Trimby

I'm not a solicitor or conveyencer so no axe to grind. I dont like the practice of sneaking in extra costs (often after a decision is made and too late or too much hassle to change) BUT Get a good price from a firm you can sue if they get it wrong and you are on the right track. As a house purchase is likely to be your biggest spend a few quid to protect yourself if a problem seems a very small cost.

Re web firms I have know many local firms who use their cheapest unqualified staff to do most of the conveyencing, I'd probably be happier getting someone from a web firm handling hundreds of cases a month than that. BUT happier still to find a good solicitor who handles the transactions themselves even at a slightly higher price.