Architect fees, is this reasonable?

darich

biggy123456789 wrote: »

Excellent new Alarash good luck with everything.

Darich, yes your right there is no need for an architect but to ensure a good service and not just some CADmonkey as they are known as is vital especially if soemthing goes wrong!! I feel if your brother has been doing copy paste copy paste then he isn't doing his job correctly!! every job is different. Yes there are certain details that can be reused but in completely different circumstances. Also if he or yourself are charging only a few hundred pounds for these sorts of jobs then you are far too cheap for this type of work, it is specialized and a professional service your providing.

Thanks James

The point I was making abotu copy paste copy paste is that a velux window detail/joist hanger detail/dormer window detail is the same regardless of who you're drawing it for. So if you've drawn it once you simply copy it from another drawing rather than draw it again.

I've never done drawings for anyone as a homer but my brother has. Far from "not doing his job properly" his drawings and submissions were accepted without questions or queries such was the standard of his work. I should also add he's now a qualified architect working in Manhattan.

safe

The original quote is scandalous, the drawings would take no more than a day and half to do because the OP already knows what they want (it sounds like a box on the back). There would be hardly any time spent on design and the rest of the job would be simple.

patricia1066

The CIAT reference is interesting. I am also looking for plan drawings, and have had a fixed quote of £3000 plus disbursements plus VAT to take the project to planning permission; given that we expect it to go through on permitted development rights it seems expensive.
Has anyone used Architecture for London, Franscesco Draisci?
They have a fee of £150 to come out for an initial visit of 2 hours and from £750 for the planning permission process.
It seems better value on the face of it.

laurencevega

I am a registered architect and am absolutely appalled by the majority of comments on this forum. The audacity and bare faced cheek of people who have little or no experience in the construction industry telling a member of the public what drawings are worth and how this work should be valued.

Ludicrous remarks such as there being no need for an architect to inspect the site. Who on earth do you think you are? You have no idea about the requisite works stages associated with any kind of project; residential or otherwise. Go and take a look at the latest RIBA plan of work and you will see that post contract (do you know what that means?) there are designated stages relating to the site inspection to ensure the builder builds to what has been drawn. For every incompetent architect or ‘ architectural technician’ there are 100 dodgy/useless builders.

Darich’s comments in particular are a disgrace. Referring to the consultants costs as ‘theft.’

The original brief states that there will be 70 m2 of new construction. A very rough cost of £1000 per m2 means we already have £70,000 construction cost. Of course, this is only based on the information that has been given so the budget may not be accurate The typical RIBA percentage fee scale for construction cost dictates that residential work for individuals should be charged at approximate rate of 10% for a full architectural service. Do the maths.

It just absolutely enrages me - people coming on here spreading lies and sheer ignorance. This ridiculous comment that you are only paying for’ plans’. For a start a plan is a type of drawing, not a generic name for a drawing. Moreover, designers and architects are helping the client visualise the best solutions and SAVE money. Here is somebody providing information for a builder, which is going to dramatically increase the value of a property and approximately £2500 is being labelled as theft? Disgusting.

Alternatively, continue to spout ignorant garbage, cheapening my profession in the process. You get what you pay for. If you want to use a non-architect you will get the kind of great travesty that is already ruining our urban environment. Or, you can appoint a proper architect starting with going to the RIBA directory and making a go of a proper project with a proper team.

Do not listen to any of the idiots on this forum.

Gizmosmum_2

laurencevega wrote: »

I am a registered architect and am absolutely appalled by the majority of comments on this forum. The audacity and bare faced cheek of people who have little or no experience in the construction industry telling a member of the public what drawings are worth and how this work should be valued.

Ludicrous remarks such as there being no need for an architect to inspect the site. Who on earth do you think you are? You have no idea about the requisite works stages associated with any kind of project; residential or otherwise. Go and take a look at the latest RIBA plan of work and you will see that post contract (do you know what that means?) there are designated stages relating to the site inspection to ensure the builder builds to what has been drawn. For every incompetent architect or ‘ architectural technician’ there are 100 dodgy/useless builders.

Darich’s comments in particular are a disgrace. Referring to the consultants costs as ‘theft.’

The original brief states that there will be 70 m2 of new construction. A very rough cost of £1000 per m2 means we already have £70,000 construction cost. Of course, this is only based on the information that has been given so the budget may not be accurate The typical RIBA percentage fee scale for construction cost dictates that residential work for individuals should be charged at approximate rate of 10% for a full architectural service. Do the maths.

It just absolutely enrages me - people coming on here spreading lies and sheer ignorance. This ridiculous comment that you are only paying for’ plans’. For a start a plan is a type of drawing, not a generic name for a drawing. Moreover, designers and architects are helping the client visualise the best solutions and SAVE money. Here is somebody providing information for a builder, which is going to dramatically increase the value of a property and approximately £2500 is being labelled as theft? Disgusting.

Alternatively, continue to spout ignorant garbage, cheapening my profession in the process. You get what you pay for. If you want to use a non-architect you will get the kind of great travesty that is already ruining our urban environment. Or, you can appoint a proper architect starting with going to the RIBA directory and making a go of a proper project with a proper team.

Do not listen to any of the idiots on this forum.

I'm pleased I haven't engaged anyone like you - not sure I could stand to be patronised long enough by you, with your sweeping generalisations, to pay for your services. You can only expect respect in a profession if you take time to respect other's views. You don't have to agree but you don't need to be rude either.

darich

laurencevega wrote: »

I am a registered architect and am absolutely appalled by the majority of comments on this forum. The audacity and bare faced cheek of people who have little or no experience in the construction industry telling a member of the public what drawings are worth and how this work should be valued.

Ludicrous remarks such as there being no need for an architect to inspect the site. Who on earth do you think you are? You have no idea about the requisite works stages associated with any kind of project; residential or otherwise. Go and take a look at the latest RIBA plan of work and you will see that post contract (do you know what that means?) there are designated stages relating to the site inspection to ensure the builder builds to what has been drawn. For every incompetent architect or ‘ architectural technician’ there are 100 dodgy/useless builders.

Darich’s comments in particular are a disgrace. Referring to the consultants costs as ‘theft.’

The original brief states that there will be 70 m2 of new construction. A very rough cost of £1000 per m2 means we already have £70,000 construction cost. Of course, this is only based on the information that has been given so the budget may not be accurate The typical RIBA percentage fee scale for construction cost dictates that residential work for individuals should be charged at approximate rate of 10% for a full architectural service. Do the maths.

It just absolutely enrages me - people coming on here spreading lies and sheer ignorance. This ridiculous comment that you are only paying for’ plans’. For a start a plan is a type of drawing, not a generic name for a drawing. Moreover, designers and architects are helping the client visualise the best solutions and SAVE money. Here is somebody providing information for a builder, which is going to dramatically increase the value of a property and approximately £2500 is being labelled as theft? Disgusting.

Alternatively, continue to spout ignorant garbage, cheapening my profession in the process. You get what you pay for. If you want to use a non-architect you will get the kind of great travesty that is already ruining our urban environment. Or, you can appoint a proper architect starting with going to the RIBA directory and making a go of a proper project with a proper team.

Do not listen to any of the idiots on this forum.

I'm quite surprised you consider my comments "disgusting".

I work in construction.
I regularly deal with architects and their drawings for home extensions and conversions.
I regularly deal with consultant's calculations and have seen the standard some of them produce.
I am able to use autocad to a high standard and am paid fairly well to do so.
I know that architects are UNABLE to do any sort of meaningful calculation for an extension - they ONLY produce drawings.

Knowing all the above puts me in a fairly good position to comment on the OP's case.

Your attitude is typical of architects I have dealt with. Generally thinking they're worth more than they are in real life.

I stand by my comments that to be charged/quoted in the order of £3,000 for a few drawings that need an Engineer to confirm if the proposal/design will actually stand up is nothing short of robbery.
For a house extension architects are not necessary and do nothing but inflate the price.

Feel free to vent again but my opinion is valid even if you feel it is incorrect. You also won't change it.

laurencevega

Of course, I won't change your view because you are ignorant and arrogant. The pertinent point here is that you are asserting opinions on the value of architects’ work (who is making generalisations now?) and what they do. Claiming that they ‘ONLY’ produce drawings (is this capitalisation some kind childish attempt to validate your point?) is astounding. Have you never heard of the acronyms JCT, SFA, NBS, PPS, PPG to mention just a few? Are they drawings?

There's such a thing as a quality built environment, and hiring a techie or ‘architectural consultant’ who has not had the same training as a fully qualified architect is exactly what brings, or at least encourages so much of the dire ‘architecture’ that we see today. Cutting corners in terms of consultant fees at an early stage is perfectly summed up by the expression ‘penny wise, pound foolish.’ There is no long-term gain there in terms of value as a home, or in a monetary sense.

Perhaps, we should have the likes of you on Channel 4 presenting the Stirling prize and replacing George Clarke and Kevin McLeod who for all their faults do their best to promote quality design? Pathetic.

As for the individual, who talks about respecting views; not only does that fall into the category of hiding from the argument, but it's completely irrelevant. I'm not respecting any view that is so wholly wrong and detrimental to my living. Don't even bother replying - there's no chance of visiting this jokers' forum again.

darich

laurencevega wrote: »

Of course, I won't change your view because you are ignorant and arrogant. The pertinent point here is that you are asserting opinions on the value of architects’ work (who is making generalisations now?) and what they do. Claiming that they ‘ONLY’ produce drawings (is this capitalisation some kind childish attempt to validate your point?) is astounding. Have you never heard of the acronyms JCT, SFA, NBS, PPS, PPG to mention just a few? Are they drawings?

There's such a thing as a quality built environment, and hiring a techie or ‘architectural consultant’ who has not had the same training as a fully qualified architect is exactly what brings, or at least encourages so much of the dire ‘architecture’ that we see today. Cutting corners in terms of consultant fees at an early stage is perfectly summed up by the expression ‘penny wise, pound foolish.’ There is no long-term gain there in terms of value as a home, or in a monetary sense.

Perhaps, we should have the likes of you on Channel 4 presenting the Stirling prize and replacing George Clarke and Kevin McLeod who for all their faults do their best to promote quality design? Pathetic.

As for the individual, who talks about respecting views; not only does that fall into the category of hiding from the argument, but it's completely irrelevant. I'm not respecting any view that is so wholly wrong and detrimental to my living. Don't even bother replying - there's no chance of visiting this jokers' forum again.

Never heard of the acronyms but that only proves that you know something I don't. Still doesn't justify £3,000 for a fwe drawings for an extension.

If you actually read my whole post you would see I wasn't decrying architects in general - just the need for them in a simple house extension.
Architects do produce great designs and they're quite visible all round us, but are they relly needed when someone needs an extra bedroom and bathroom on the gable end of their house?
I don't think so.

Your instant dismissal of all arguements that you dislike shows you to be the arrogant and ignorant one.

You or your attitude will not be missed.
:wave:

System

if the op was unhappy with the original quote for a block fee they should ask the designer to work on an hourly rate. and give a breakdown of all the work that is involved. To say that all jobs are just cut and pasted from others certainly does hint at ignorance maybe working for a short time in a registered architects office would cure this?
whilst some on here don't seem to think an architect offers anything more than drawings and just add to cost it could be that the several years of design training and experience can add more to any project than a set of foundation calculations...

diable

ormus wrote: »

i would go and look for another house.

a bit late now