2 meter confusion

Leona1295

Hello all,

Sorry this is so long, just don't want to miss anything out!

I have been renting a flat with 2 other people for 6 weeks. It is all electric (not storage heaters). There is a meter by the front door which we were told by our landlord is our electricity meter. Our electricity is with Southern electric and we have an account for all three of us which is on a standard tariff (I know this is more expensive but the house share consists of me, my boyfriend and a student who we didn't know before so not prepared to pay by direct debit and have the money come out of one account.).

We took an opening meter reading from the meter in the flat and this is consistent with the closing reading from my landlord. Last week my landlord sent me an email saying he had been sent an electricity bill for £2700. My landlord bought the flat in December, renovated it and we started renting the flat in February. The bill is based on actual meter readings but my landlord is saying that the previous owner's closing meter reading is about 30,000 kws lower than his opening reading! SE told my landlord that it would be impossible to use this amount of electricity in 3 months.

My landlord lives in Newcastle and we are in the South East so he asked us to arrange for someone to come and look at the meter. When I phoned SE they said to check the serial number on the meter. I couldn't find a number so we arranged for me to have a meter reading on the 7th between 2 and 4pm. (i had to book the afternoon off work for this)

By 4:30pm on the 7th I hadn't heard anything so I called SE to find out what was going on. They said someone took a meter reading at 15:30, I told them this was impossible because the meter is in my flat by the front door! I told them that in theory the engineer could have got into the block if someone else let them in and then just come in to read the meter (my door was closed but unlocked) but if this was the case I would be making a serious complaint as that is entering my home without permission!

The lady I spoke to then said the engineer had finished his shift so they would have to call me back tomorrow to find out what had happened and reassured me that no-one would have come in without permission. I took her name and detailed the time of the call, she also gave me the name of her colleague who would be calling me back the next day.

Yesterday her colleague phoned me back as promised and told me that the engineer read a meter that is situated on the ground floor by the stairs and that the serial number on this meter matches the one on their records. She also told me that the meter reading tallied with the closing reading from the previous owner. I told her that there is a meter in our flat and that as we are an all electric flat it can only be for electricity. I also told her that the meter in our flat seems to go by our usage e.g. heating on a lot - meter reading increases a lot. She arranged for an engineer to come out on the 26th April to do a load test and put a note on the account to say that the engineer must have access to the flat. She gave me her extension number so I could phone with any problems and told me she would phone on the 27th for an update.

When I got home yesterday I checked for the meter by the stairs. It is for economy 7 (We don't have storage heaters so I have no idea why somone would chose that tariff for our flat!) and there is only 1 meter. there are 10 flats in my block and we are on the 3rd floor, why would our meter be downstairs?!

What I would like to know is -

Can the meter downstairs be ours?

If the meter downstairs is ours, what is the meter in the flat for?

If the meter in the flat is ours and the previous tenant had the wrong meter, how will they work out what the previous tenant and my landlord owe? (I would assume that our account is fine as my landlord's closing and my opening reading are fine).

If the meter downstairs is ours how will they work out what everyone owes?

Can I claim the £20 for a missed appointment? I know that technically they came to read the meter but they didn't resolve the issue and I am now having to take more time off work.

Thanks,

Leona

spiro

If you are prepared to PM me your address I can check how many meter points are listed for the site/building.

Depending on the set up, the meter downstairs could be the electricity suppliers meter and the one in you flat the landlords meter. This setup happens when someone turns a house in a couple of flats (to rent) and doesnt want to pay for a new elec supply and meter. Biill goes to landlord who divides it between the flats based on the comsumption in each flat using landlord meters.

Could be there is a mix up between MPANs (meter point admin number) which you are registered to and and actual address or meter.

Fire_Fox

Be careful about organising for meter load tests, you could end up being charged rather than your landlord. I am pretty sure there are tariffs other than standard which are cheaper but you can still pay quarterly when the bills arrive.

mattcanary

The meter at the bottom of the stairs could be for the communal lighting. Do you know who the has the freehold tenancy on the block of flats? Maybe you (or Southern) could contact them (probably a property management company, of some kind). This is a common set-up in blocks of flats.
The meter supplier wouldn;t actually have an electric meter of their own. They wouldn't need one.

dunloadin

Can the meter downstairs be ours?

Yes, it may well be that the original meter in the flat was a token meter, there was an early batch made that didn't have a read on them...a second 'normal' meter was fitted in series so that meter reads could be taken. In instances I've seen this the meter with the read on is the one that the serial number is against on the MPAN. In flats these meters were quite often fitted in the communal cupboard that housed the incoming mains.

If the meter downstairs is ours, what is the meter in the flat for?

If the meter downstairs is yours, and you have a meter fitted in the flat that has a read on it then it should be easy to see if they are fitted in series. Take the reads of both meters at the same time....check every 24 hours and note the consumtion on both meters....if the units used match then the meters are probably in series, and one of them will need to be removed.

If the meter in the flat is ours and the previous tenant had the wrong meter, how will they work out what the previous tenant and my landlord owe? (I would assume that our account is fine as my landlord's closing and my opening reading are fine).

As long as you have your reads when you moved in you should be OK, anything before then is not your problem.

If the meter downstairs is ours how will they work out what everyone owes?

The $64000 question. If the meters are in series then the reads on the meter in the flat should help to get it sorted. I am assuming that the 30,000 KWhr difference is because the previous tennant was unaware of the meter downstairs and gave the meter read in the flat as the final read.

Can I claim the £20 for a missed appointment? I know that technically they came to read the meter but they didn't resolve the issue and I am now having to take more time off work.

No, the person checking the meter got the read from the correct meter on his/her handheld, therefore it was a completed job, not a missed appointment. Agreed the issue is not resolved, you need to get a meter engineer out to take a look at it.

mattcanary

Yeah, like Dunloadin says it could be the case that two meters have been fitted at various times to serve your flat.
It could though, just as easily be the case that your supplier thinks that you are responsible for paying for the electric that is actually serving the communal lighting.
Leona, I think you (or your supplier) firstly need to find out if there are any other meters in the communal area. Is this a purpose-built block of flats or originally a big house converted into seperate flats? If there are lights in the hallway, it is extremely likely there there will also be an electric meter in the hallway serving that area (and that could well be the meter near the stairs - they are often placed in this area). Or is there another meter somewhere in the hallway that may serve the commnal lighting? Of course, any other meters could equally serve the flats on the ground floor. It may be more useful for you to find out the situation yourself (eg: by speaking to neighbours as well) in addition to your supplier coming out. At least well, then there will be a better chance of you knowing if your supplier are giving you correct information or not.
I must admit, it does seem strange if you live on a flat on a higher floor, that the meter serving your flat would be on the ground floor. If originally fitted outside the flat, it would be located on the landing on your floor. However, it would not be unknown for the meter to be on a different floor.

Gurn_2

If the meter in your flat has no serial number then its probably a sub meter and the billing meter is downstairs, if you have the opening read of that meter and know what it is now, then at least you know how many units you are responsible for.

anniecave

I would do the test as advised by dunloadin ... take a reading on each then a day later do the same thing, then again on another day.
If you also post up the meter serial number of the meter that has alledgedly used the £2700 of electricity, someone who has access can investigate via the electricity online database and tell you how many meters there are supplying the flats!

Leona1295

GRRR! Just wrote a long response and it vanished on me. I will try and sum it up again.

SE came back for second reading yesterday, the meter inside the flat that we and our LL thought was ours (and is therefore what we have used for LL's closing and our opening readings) is an old submeter and is not monitoring our usage. Our meter is in the hallway on our floor (there is a little cupboard in the stairwell by each flat containing a meter). The closing reading for the previous owner is accurate and the current reading is accurate but the readings in between for our handover from the landlord are a mystery!

SE have said that they want to give us an opening reading of 20334 which is an estimation based on the usage of the previous tenant. Our current reading is 22410. However the difference between the reading they took on 07th April and 26th April is 215 units, an average of 771 units for the total period of our tenancy and roughly a third of what we would be billed for based on their 20334 estimation!

We haven't used the heaters since the end of March and our flatmate was away for 29th March - 20th April so I know our average for 7-26 April is lower than usual but we barely used the heating before and we use more electricity that our flatmate so although the 771 is probably lower than our actual usage I can’t see how it is 3 times lower!

SE said that if we wanted a different estimation then they could monitor our usage for a set period of time, work out an average for the whole tenancy and bill us for that.

If they do this will my LL have to foot the bill for the difference? Can I ask to have some extra units tagged onto their estimation to take into account the heating usage for the first few weeks?

We are happy to pay for what we have used and don’t want our landlord to be stuck paying a bill for our heating use in Feb and March.

Any suggestions on what we can do?

Thanks,

Leona

Premier_2

Leona1295 wrote: »

...If they do this will my LL have to foot the bill for the difference? ...

Possibly. It'll depend on how much is involved and whether the difference could realistically be attributed to the LL.

You say the supplier has the actual reading from the final bill of the previous owner. The supplier will want to be paid for any energy used since this reading and all that is being argued is who should pay what.

By billing you pro-rata for what you use in the future back to when your tenancy began will produce you a bill for energy you have used.

The difference between the last actual reading they had and the start reading you pay from may be attributable to the LL (or any previous account holders since the LL purchased the property) but that would be looked at considering the time involved and the usage of the property during that time. The supplier might just end up writing off any difference.

Leona1295

Hi Premier,

thanks for the response. I will contact SE and ask that our opening reading is based on pro-rata billing of our current accurate usage and let the LL know.

Many thanks,

Leona