MSE News: Rise in housing market asking prices

Asheron

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Recovery continues.
:beer:

There is NO Recovery

dopester

treliac wrote: »

Do you think that there is possibly another reason for empty retirement flats?

Perhaps there are fewer and fewer retirees who can afford them as they are priced, especially since they tend to come with exhorbitant and ever-rising charges relating to management staffing costs, heating, lighting and maintenance of communal areas, gardening etc. They are an expensive way to live.

That could be so. I'm not dismissing what you've suggested treliac, at all. I don't really know much about these retirement flats so I'll do some further research. Nevertheless.. even with the extra monthly running expenses, I'd have thought they provide a good option for older people looking to sell and downsize, with a lot of money from the house sale left over.

Harry_Powell

dopester wrote: »

It's the minority on the margin who set the prices and the values..

The majority cannot be on the margin, else it wouldn't be called the margin it'd be the mainstream. In my world, the majority of the UK population are employed and quietly getting on with their lives.

Harry_Powell

dopester wrote: »

That could be so. I'm not dismissing what you've suggested treliac, at all. I don't really know much about these retirement flats so I'll do some further research. Nevertheless.. even with the extra monthly running expenses, I'd have thought they provide a good option for older people looking to sell and downsize, with a lot of money from the house sale left over.

I'd have thought that a lot of retiring people would baulk at gettign a flat. Certainly peopel of my parents generation see flats in the terms of the 1960 & 1970 sprawling ghettos and wouldn't countenance a move there. Others see retirement as a chance to potter about in the garden - not much chance of that in a block of flats.

ukcarper

dopester wrote: »

That could be so. I'm not dismissing what you've suggested treliac, at all. I don't really know much about these retirement flats so I'll do some further research. Nevertheless.. even with the extra monthly running expenses, I'd have thought they provide a good option for older people looking to sell and downsize, with a lot of money from the house sale left over.

I’ve considered a retirement flat but the last thing I want on a fixed income is no control over my expenses and flats in general can have high regular maintenance charges and unexpected one off payments and the charges on retirement flats can be even more expensive.

dopester

dopester wrote: »

Anecdotes I'm receiving tell me there are increasing numbers of retirement flats standing empty in retirement blocks in our area. Maybe some of your older owners are delaying selling their homes (not giving it away mentality - despite many having seen their homes frequently x50+ in value from the 1950s/60s/70s.. or some multiples again if they traded up over the years.. say in the 80s or 90s.)

If there is anything in the anecdotal stuff coming my way, I'm not sure whether the ever increasing number of beneficiaries of these flats, from those who have passed on, are going to keep these flats empty, holding out for peak or near peak prices - under what were very different market conditions.

What is certain, is those who do lower their asking prices, or accept lower offers, will bring down the market values for those who hold out for stupid money asking prices. How many sellers and how willing they are to accept lower offers, versus those in the market waiting to buy, is something many of us disagree about.

treliac wrote: »

Do you think that there is possibly another reason for empty retirement flats?

Perhaps there are fewer and fewer retirees who can afford them as they are priced, especially since they tend to come with exhorbitant and ever-rising charges relating to management staffing costs, heating, lighting and maintenance of communal areas, gardening etc. They are an expensive way to live.

Hmm. Again I accept your points trel. Either way, I think perhaps this segment of the market can expect some heavy falls in value.. until new buyers find the price level and charges involved a more sensible and cost-effective way to live. Although I'd be put off as a retired possible purchaser if ever more flats were becoming empty - it could drive down values much further still.

Just spotted this thread on the House Buying, Renting & Selling forum (Today: thread created at 6:00 pm)

So many empty Retirement Flats for sale in 1 development;any bright ideas for selling

pinksprout wrote: »

I am trying to sell my late mother's one bedroom flat which is in a block of 52 one and two bedroom units in a McCarthy and Stone retirement development built in 1988. The flat has been on the market since September last year. However the slow down in the property market has seen the sale of retirement flats grind to a halt and there are now a total of 10 (out of 52) empty flats for sale in this one development. Prices range from £115,00 to £130,000 for the 7 one bedroom flats and the 3 two bedroom units are being marketed for £139,950.

In terms of making my Mum's flat saleable I have redecorated, recarpeted and fitted a new bathroom but as no one is viewing that makes no difference.

The managing agents are still getting their service charge, ground rent etc so they are not bothered that the development is gradually emptying of residents.

It seems a complete waste to have so many empty units. Does anyone have any inspiration about any company/charity/government/council agency that might be interested in buying up (or renting) one, or all, of these flats? The primary difficulty is of course that the flats are for the elderly and the main resident has to be age 60 (second residents can be age 55 or above).

Thank you for any feedback.

fc123

Anecdotally for this thread I know someone close to me who want's to buy. They rent and own and have decided to relocate to the rental area.

He has 200k equity and has no chance of getting the level of mortgage he wants (both self employed) whereas when he looked at it in 2006, it was no problem. Then, it was re-jig the current mortgage and take out the deposit and get a non satus mortage for the remaining 70%. Easy.
The mortage repayment would be simialr to the rent too.

Not easy now and this is someone who is renting a home that a BB who can't sell at similar value.
Those BB are going have to get used to being LL sharpish...the last LL he had lived at the bottom of the garden and hated small kids.

So I agree ...sort of...with bit's of DS theory but I don't think it will sink in for a few years.. I would give it a decade myself.

They are sat here on my rental St....not budging on price, not selling, it's quite painful really.

dopester

fc123 wrote: »

So I agree ...sort of...with bit's of DS theory but I don't think it will sink in for a few years.. I would give it a decade myself.

They are sat here on my rental St....not budging on price, not selling, it's quite painful really.

BB = Baby boomer i take it.

What is the girl who has inherited her mother's retirement going to do? She can wait and wait.. paying the service charge and council tax and other associated costs. Either her, or one of the other inheritors in the retirement complex with 20% vacancy rate... will eventually decide to accept a lower price to get rid of it.

The lower price transacted at will help set the approximate market value for ALL the other flats in the building - and perhaps similar in the local area - even for those who were holding and didn't want to sell for less than they thought it was worth.

fc I get your point but I don't think those baby-boomers or other owners not budging on price, not getting viewings, not getting offers... not selling, are of much consequence.

It would be nice if many measures to help stop correction were overrun by economic necessity.. some interest rate rises for example from 300 year historic lows, to shake out those who are carrying zombie levels of unsustainable debt, bring about healthy adjustment, to force more properties to market and for sellers to accept what market is offering. Auction house went for £200K below what you expected.

Even without that though... issues such as the tightening of credit, qualification for credit, and credit revulsion are impacting on values - even when there are fewer sellers who have pressure to accept lower offers. And even with all the support schemes, there are still those who have to sell (job losses/pay cuts), or like the retirement flat inheritor... find it pointless to wait and wait.

10 years? We'll see but I'm expecting it to play out much sooner than that. Especially if the markets begin to force events. The market values for all your holders is dependent on what others who actually are selling, accepting lower offers.. get for their homes. It's sell for your life in my opinion.

Many RBS shareholders might have been reluctant to sell their RBS shareholdings when the price was £6, as they had in mind the month before their holdings were worth £8 per share.

Holding because they stubbornly want a price before circumstances had significantly changed... not being prepared to sell for less... didn't stop their holding fall to 10p a share. The value of their holdings fell because other market participants were willing to sell for ever lower prices... making values fall for all holders. Even those who held from £8 down to £6, down to £4, all the way to the 10p bottom.

18% of RBS shareholders, actively selling RBS shares at whatever they could get for them, drove down the value for all the old retired pensioners holding RBS shares who stubbornly held on to them. (I made the 18% figure up but I'd imagine it was something like that).

fc123

dopester wrote: »

BB = Baby boomer i take it.

What is the girl who has inherited her mother's retirement going to do? She can wait and wait.. paying the service charge and council tax and other associated costs. Either her, or one of the other inheritors in the retirement complex with 20% vacancy rate... will eventually decide to accept a lower price to get rid of it.

The lower price transacted at will help set the approximate market value for ALL the other flats in the building - and perhaps similar in the local area - even for those who were holding and didn't want to sell for less than they thought it was worth.

fc I get your point but I don't think those baby-boomers or other owners not budging on price, not getting viewings, not getting offers... not selling, are of much consequence.

It would be nice if many measures to help stop correction were overrun by economic necessity.. some interest rate rises for example from 300 year historic lows, to shake out those who are carrying zombie levels of unsustainable debt, bring about healthy adjustment, to force more properties to market and for sellers to accept what market is offering. Auction house went for £200K below what you expected.

Even without that though... issues such as the tightening of credit, qualification for credit, and credit revulsion are impacting on values - even when there are fewer sellers who have pressure to accept lower offers. And even with all the support schemes, there are still those who have to sell (job losses/pay cuts), or like the retirement flat inheritor... find it pointless to wait and wait.

10 years? We'll see but I'm expecting it to play out much sooner than that. Especially if the markets begin to force events. The market values for all your holders is dependent on what others who actually are selling, accepting lower offers.. get for their homes. It's sell for your life in my opinion.

Many RBS shareholders might have been reluctant to sell their RBS shareholdings when the price was £6, as they had in mind the month before their holdings were worth £8 per share.

Holding because they stubbornly want a price before circumstances had significantly changed... not being prepared to sell for less... didn't stop their holding fall to 10p a share. The value of their holdings fell because other market participants were willing to sell for ever lower prices... making values fall for all holders. Even those who held from £8 down to £6, down to £4, all the way to the 10p bottom.

18% of RBS shareholders, actively selling RBS shares at whatever they could get for them, drove down the value for all the old retired pensioners holding RBS shares who stubbornly held on to them. (I made the 18% figure up but I'd imagine it was something like that).

OK we agree on how it may play out but I still think it may take a little longer....takes many a while to latch into the idea. The old saying a bird in the hand might prompt some to say FI and drop to a price a seller will pay.

How long do you think? 3 years? I will bet a piece of my stock that it will be nearer 7-8 years and the ticket prices won't change too much but inflation will drop the values down. As long as the ticket price stays the same, some people feel better too.

I have some gossip for you re pimp thread/PM stuff too....I will PM when my headspace clears.

carolt

My MIL is looking to buy soonish, as she approaches retirement. Local prices where she lives are expensive - but I have spotted 1 local EA where the choice of suitable flats appears much greater and the prices far more realistic - a retirement flat specialist.

I shall mention your post to her, dopester - she's not buying yet, but starting to look around - might cheer her up to know that retirement flats may be more open to offers than others.