Unauthorised Visit

franklee

GDB2222 wrote: »

Absolutely agree that the tenant should not be disturbed, but it's ridiculous to suggest that the landlord should not have a key to a property he's responsible for. On a practical point, if a tenant of mine ever changed the locks (not that I have ever given them cause to), I would end the tenancy at the first opportunity.

I agree that these argument have been rehearsed many times over, but it's foolish to egg people on to take action that could leave them homeless.

I don't think you quite understand the impact of having someone walk in on you has, at that point trust goes out of the window.

In my previous rental I trusted the agent and landlord so did not change the locks. In a different tenancy the agent sent a random repair man round after the repair had been done and reported it was done and I caught them in the hallway. No way would I trust them with keys to my home again after they just handed them out to a builder who wandered in asking for them, the agent didn't even know the keys had been given out till I made them check up. That's not acceptable and as I'm happy to wait in they don't need the keys till the end of the tenancy when I will reinstate their lock barrels.

If a landlord was prepared to serve notice on a good tenant over that then so be it, the value of my security is worth far more than that to me, and the rent paid on the dot every month without fail for several years is worth more to both agent and landlord.

Really I can't see the need to have keys, as already said they can break in in a genuine emergency, but then in a genuine emergency the emergency services would do that anyway, how many firemen let the house burn down whist waiting for a landlord/agent to arrive with keys even assuming they know who to phone to deliver the keys in the first place? It's just a nonsense.

In the OP's case I'd write a strongly worded letter explaining what happened and stating that no one is to be allowed in without approval from the tenant. If that didn't produce sufficient apologies and reassurances it won't happen again I'd change the lock barrels using the incident to justify my actions later on should it be discovered that they were changed.

Annisele

GDB2222 wrote: »

On a practical point, if a tenant of mine ever changed the locks (not that I have ever given them cause to), I would end the tenancy at the first opportunity.

I think that's a bit harsh.

I've been a tenant for more than ten years, but I've only changed the locks once - after I'd had my keys stolen and I thought there was a very good chance the thief knew where I lived. I couldn't get in touch with the landlord instantly, so I got a locksmith out and then posted a copy of the new key to the landlord. I guess that's not the sort of situation you had in mind, but I think it would be have been pretty mean if my landlord had evicted me for doing that!

GDB2222

Annisele wrote: »

I think that's a bit harsh.

I've been a tenant for more than ten years, but I've only changed the locks once - after I'd had my keys stolen and I thought there was a very good chance the thief knew where I lived. I couldn't get in touch with the landlord instantly, so I got a locksmith out and then posted a copy of the new key to the landlord. I guess that's not the sort of situation you had in mind, but I think it would be have been pretty mean if my landlord had evicted me for doing that!

You sent your landlord a copy of the new keys. What I object to is the suggestion that if there's an emergency I have to break the door down.

Obviously, if the place is on fire, the fire brigade will do the necessary. But what if somebody thinks they smell gas? Or there's water trickling into the flat downstairs? Oh, just smash the door down - who cares that it costs several hundred £££s to replace! And I've never tried to smash a door down. Who says I carry breaking and entry tools with me?

I agree that there needs to be trust all round, and the tenant needs to be satisfied that keys won't be handed out willy-nilly to workmen.

Regshoe

GDB2222 wrote: »

I agree that there needs to be trust all round....

And herein lies the problem. The tenant will (presumably) have been vetted, both financially and possibly with references from previous landlords etc, which may give at least a minimal character reference. The landlord will not have been vetted in any way, all he needs to be a landlord is to own a property (yes he should have permission to let, gas safety certs etc. but I'm only looking at the "trust" issue here).

The tenant has no way of knowing that the landlord is not some sort of axe-murdering psychopath, oddly owning property does not automatically guarantee trustworthyness! It would be nice if we could trust somebody we have probably only met briefly a couple of times, possibly via an online/newspaper advert, but you can't.

That said I haven't changed the locks at my (rented) house as:

1) They aren't the Yale type which makes changing them a bit more of an effort.

2) I'm about twice the size of my Landlady (and statistically speaking women are far less likely to creep into your house in the middle of the night and bury the hatchet so to speak!)

GDB2222

Landladies are known poisoners- well, most of them. Anyway, as a zombie, is there much that can be done to you?

Regshoe

GDB2222 wrote: »

Landladies are known poisoners- well, most of them. Anyway, as a zombie, is there much that can be done to you?

Nothing that can't be solved with a needle & thread with a little patience!

By and large I suppose 99% of Tenants get along quite well without needing to change locks, the problem is on this forum you are only really going to see people with difficult landlords (or tenants).

I suppose if your landlord was an axe-wielding maniac he could always just chop through the door and do his best "Here's Johnny!" impression.

g_attrill

I'm surprised that these maintenance guys don't shout out several times when they let themselves, so the tenant knows they are there, even if they think they are expected. One day they will end up with a baseball bat round the back of their head!

franklee

GDB2222 wrote: »

You sent your landlord a copy of the new keys. What I object to is the suggestion that if there's an emergency I have to break the door down.

Obviously, if the place is on fire, the fire brigade will do the necessary. But what if somebody thinks they smell gas? Or there's water trickling into the flat downstairs? Oh, just smash the door down - who cares that it costs several hundred £££s to replace! And I've never tried to smash a door down. Who says I carry breaking and entry tools with me?

I agree that there needs to be trust all round, and the tenant needs to be satisfied that keys won't be handed out willy-nilly to workmen.

Obviously you don't carry breaking and entry tools with you, but then it's not likely you are just passing by when the "emergency" occurs. If you are phoned up due to a non threatening problem then you can call out a locksmith. If the house is under immediate threat then as you said the fire brigade will do the necessary.

If a neighbour smells gas do they really call for next doors landlord if the tenant is out? How many neighbours even know next doors landlord's phone number? I think most people would just call transco who simply attend and turn the gas off which in all the houses I've lived in can be done from the outside. The chances of the landlord happening to be passing by and being the first to smell gas is so tiny and yet is a known ruse for the landlord gaining unauthorised entry.

The problems with unauthorised entry are:

Makes the tenant feel insecure in their own home.

Insurance won't pay out for thefts if there is no sign of break in.

Personal documents or other items may have been left out.

Damage caused by the repair man e.g. mud in carpets, scrapes on vinyl floors or chips on doors etc. that the tenant will then be charged for.

How can there possibly be trust all round, and the tenant satisfied that keys won't be handed out willy-nilly to workmen when the keys are held by an incompetent agent? The agent my landlord uses is one of the better ones in many ways but their key handling is abysmal and I know for sure they do not log keys in and out. Also for the gas safety check I've seen them keeping a gas engineer waiting while they try to locate the keys to the properties hes meant to be checking that day and getting themselves in a right muddle. They've little idea who has keys and when and it certainly isn't logged.

In my case they didn't even check there was an appointment booked, they just gave the key to the workman who asked for them who didn't have an appointment. Not that it was his fault as he probably didn't realise the rules for tenants, it's the agent who should have turned him away.

Trazy

In my previous privately rented flat my landlord once let himself in when I was in bed ill, scared the bloody life out of me.
Trace x

tbs624

princeofpounds wrote: »

They are meant to give 24hrs notice...

* In writing*

muppet83 wrote: »

We had this when we were renting, the agency said they'd written to us but we hadn't received anything. I didn't believe them but there was nothing we could do to prove it.
No they're not allowed to do it, I'd ask for them to telephone you from now on so there can be no excuses.

The LL is required by law to give notice in writing - the T can however, ask for the time/date to be rearranged for a mutually convenient appt. So, write to the LL/LA and state that you will personally confirm all future appointments with them and that you do not consent to anyone entering the property without the LA/LL having had that confirmation from you.