We are all in this together, well not if you are in a union.

tomterm8

Really2 wrote: »

What are you on about most have seen pay freezes or job losses??? I see it we should all do our bit, it is you agreeing with bankers bonus's because you believe you are entitled to what they have!!!!!!!

Maybe you should rephrase that, I don't understand what you are trying to say. What I think is that people are entitled to withold their labour, try to find another job, or use any other legal way to negotiate a better pay deal for themselves. If a business sells 100 widgets to another business, they will try to get the best deal they can. I don't see why teachers should do anything other than try to get the best deal for themselves. That's the right wing thing to do.

Really2 wrote: »

But let's face it Unite are losing against BA, NUT could be next.
.

It's not necessary to have public support to win a strike. Frankly, the BA dispute is a very different one to any teachers union dispute. No one would miss BA if it went out of business altogether. Whereas, every business and parent in the country would be affected by a general teachers strike.

Really2

tomterm8 wrote: »

Maybe you should rephrase that, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

You have said you will strike because the cause (bankers) have not done their bit.

tomterm8 wrote: »

I'd have more sympathy for the argument that the strike is wrong, if the people who actually caused the problems - the bankers, the government, and etc had actually had any consequences for their actions.

You you want pay rises, because bankers have had them, it is really that simple from what you have said.

I can't see any other justification by you other than others have not been punished so I will push for more money.
Perhaps you can give me a better idea of why you will strike because so far it seems to be based on the banks and the government?
Who will be paying for the rise if you get it?

PS not every teach agrees with unions, how many more in unions can survive without money.
It may come down to a battle of wills, it is not as simple as you make out.

tomterm8

Really2 wrote: »

You have said you will strike because the cause (bankers) have not done their bit.
You you want pay rises, because bankers have had them, it is really that simple from what you have said.

Nope, firstly, I am not a teacher, I own my own business. So it wouldn't do me much good to strike.

I actually said that I would have more sympathy for your opinion if it actually had any impact on what happens in the real world. The reality is 'we are not all in it together'. So, your view is nonsence.

My view is people are entitled to take any legal action to get the best deal they can for themselves. It's how I run my business, its how I expect everyone else to run theirs, including teachers.

Really2

tomterm8 wrote: »

I actually said that I would have more sympathy for your opinion if it actually had any impact on what happens in the real world. The reality is 'we are not all in it together'. So, your view is nonsence.

What is my view for it to be nonsense? That pay freezes and a review of public sector pensions is sensible given the current climate.

I would thought that makes perfect sense at the moment not nonsense, if it was nonsense why do the CBI agree?

I am personally think your view is nonsense as it is purely based on a "few" getting away with it, in your eyes.

In reality the majority will have to pay for this that includes you and me. Why should I be happy to see my taxes increase to fund some when I have showed restraint during the recession on my own pay?

Pennywise

tomterm8 wrote: »

The rich continue to be rich, the MPs go away with massive failure payouts, and the teachers pay for their failings.

So you think it's just the teachers who are paying for failings of others do you?

The reality of it is that EVERYONE has to pay for the failures. That means teachers as well as nurses, as well as Tesco workers, cleaners, tradesmen, professionals, etc. If one small group of workers get unfair treatment, it increases the burdens on everyone else.

And do you really think that the teachers didn't benefit from the boom years which fed on the back of the over-supply of cheap debt that fuelled it? Did teachers not benefit from house price inflation, did they not enjoy foreign holidays with an attractive exchange rate, did they not benefit from low interest rates, did they not jump on the buy-to-let bandwagon. Come on, get real, we ALL enjoyed the good times, so we ALL have to bear our fair shair of the consequences.

wymondham

I'm on my third year of pay freeze. My hours/workload have gone up to compensate for the other people who have been made redundant and I visit the doctor far more than I have ever done. I wonder who got the best deal? Can I add my name to the 'arnt I hard done by' list? please?

marklv

Spartacus_Mills wrote: »

Actually in the private sector pay cuts and redundancies have been the order of the day now for the last 18 months. People suffered as businesses accepted the economic realities of the world around them. I am sure some companies took the opportunity to cut costs but many had a harsh time and responded accordingly.

So pay cuts have been accepted by people as a matter of course. Especially if the choice is stark enough to be that or your job going.

The public sector is going to have to endure the same.

Not everywhere in the private sector have there been cuts. It depends on the industry and the business area. As I said before, what goes on in the private sector has no relevance to the public sector; the public sector is not a business.

marklv

Really2 wrote: »

Mmmm so you think your pay rise is more important than the rest of the country so others should lose jobs and taxed higher as a result.
You are typical of what is wrong with the public sector, any change that does not mean wage inflation results in a strike, no matter the mess the country are in.

You may blame the bankers but you want to punish everyone for your pay rises and pensions.
And who lose out in the strikes, children.
What a sad state of affairs in the current climate that some still think pay rises should be given no matter what.

PS here is what is wrong with the pension structure? that is not my fault so I presume you do not mind paying more then????
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8604112.stm

People in the public sector getting a small pay rise will have absolutely no impact on the economy - it will not cause any extra tax increases or job losses anywhere else. Why should it? There certainly are savings that can be made in public sector and I have already outlined these, so why do you keep coming back to salaries?

Really2

marklv wrote: »

People in the public sector getting a small pay rise will have absolutely no impact on the economy - it will not cause any extra tax increases or job losses anywhere else. Why should it? There certainly are savings that can be made in public sector and I have already outlined these, so why do you keep coming back to salaries?

?????
How can increasing wages not increase tax/ debt burden. We have to lower public sector debt not increase/maintain it.

What are you going to cut to lower public sector debt yet increase wages?

The highest public sector expense is PAYE?

The public sector expense is higher than the revenue streams coming in. It is debt accrued through public sector expense, it can not keep increasing without cuts.
Unless you are suggesting job cuts and wage increase? But that would then still cause strikes as per the article.

marklv

Pennywise wrote: »

What about the 99.9% of private sector workers who don't work in the City and don't get bonuses, work hard, get little reward (average pay for private sector is less than average for public sector). What about the majority of private sector employees who don't have generous pension schemes funded by their employer or where the employer has gone bust leaving a bankrupt pension scheme? Following your logic, they should suffer, despite not enjoying the benefits, but public sector workers shouldn't suffer. That's some crazy thinking!!!

It's sad that so many people have been affected by all the problems you have listed, but trying to pass the blame for this on the public sector is idiotic and plainly unpleasant. It might give you a nice feeling of schadenfreude to see ordinary public sector workers suffer, but it will do nothing to sort your own job problems out. Two wrongs never make a right. You also need to bear in mind that public sector workers have already had poor rises for a number of years now, and the much lambasted pension schemes have already become less generous - the real problem is those workers who have already retired on the very generous pensions that existed 15-20 years ago. They are the ones who are causing high pension spending, not the current bunch who have much less generous schemes.