Old dog on Epiphen

Marsh_Samphire

My 11 yr old papillon is so poorly, we've taken her to the vet and had tests and meds but I'm really upset about it and don't know if it's worth putting her through all this.

She was born with a heart murmur and the vets said she probably would live a couple of years. She has heart pills and, apart from getting tired quicker than our other dogs, you wouldn’t know there is anything wrong. About a year ago she started to go downhill and the vet gave a new pill which got back to her old self again in no time. She eats well, loves going out on the moor for her walks and is a happy, perky little thing.

But a couple of weeks ago she started having fits. She yelps, falls over and twitches her legs a little, faints and wets herself. Then she “comes round” and is a bit wobbly for a while but gets back to normal very quickly. The whole thing is over within a couple of minutes and then she is right as rain, jumping up for her treats, eating and drinking and looking happy and alert as usual. She was having one nearly every day, sometimes a couple of days without one, it happened day or night, when she’s doing different things. She can be asleep, or running about on the moor, we can’t identify a trigger.

We took her to the vet who did an ECG which showed extra heartbeats (something new/different to her existing heart murmur) and they prescribed Epiphen which she has been taking for 4 days now. She hasn’t had any fits since starting on it but she is so unwell now, it’s heartbreaking. She won’t eat, hasn’t pooped for 2 days, can’t stand up and looks really miserable and depressed. I read the side effects and looked it up on the internet and it is really nasty stuff.

It seems the treatment is worse than the disease and I’m wondering whether it is worth putting her though this if it makes her feel so awful. I know there is no cure and she’s probably getting to the end of the line but I don’t want her last few weeks/months to be miserable. At the moment we can’t even get the meds into her, not even her heart pills, because she won’t eat and we’ve tried crushing them in food, in cheese, and even in pate and she won’t take anything.

Has anyone else had any experience with Epiphen, did your dog have bad side effects too?

RacyRed

Epiphen is a very strong drug and it takes time for pets to adjust to it, also the dose she is currently on is possibly higher than it will need to be once her fits are stabalised.

It is normal for this drug, as with any other condition controling drug, to have to be dose adjusted as your dog's body responds to it and the condition comes under control.

Talk to your vet about the side efects and maybe wait a little longer to see if your dog becomes more comfortable before making any major decisions.

My cat took a couple of weeks to adjust to epiphen, then her quality of life really improved.

Marsh_Samphire

Thanks, I thought it might take a few days for her to get used to it, but hadn't realised it could be a couple of weeks. I will speak to the vet again when they are open on Tuesday. I'll keep trying to get her to eat in the meantime.

I just hate seeing her looking so miserable

RacyRed

Marsh_Samphire wrote: »

Thanks, I thought it might take a few days for her to get used to it, but hadn't realised it could be a couple of weeks. I will speak to the vet again when they are open on Tuesday. I'll keep trying to get her to eat in the meantime.

I just hate seeing her looking so miserable

Stick with it, it sounds as if she was doing fine between fits, and she will get back to a normal, if just slightly more subdued, life in future. Pets can adjust so well.

Do talk to your vet, I think there are things that can help with the side effects. When is her next routine appointment?

Marsh_Samphire

It was meant to be the week after. Probably to give her time to get used to the Epiphen, I just hadn't realised how strong the side effects were.

I've managed to get her heart pills down her now, they have to be given on an empty stomach and the vet said Epiphen must be given with food, so I'll wait an hour or two before I try again.

I'm glad your cat improved after a couple of weeks, that has made me feel better and I will stick with it.

Mutter_2

Hi Marsh. I definately wouldn't give up yet. No.

Dosage is very difficult to guage and usually less, rather than more is given to start, allowing for futher seizures, then increased as necessary. Sounds like your girl may be on quite a high dose from the off. Good for no seizures, but she is totally zonked, for now.

As Red said, give it at least 14 days for the medication to stabilise her. I bet she will surprise you.

One thing you are lucky with is her fast recovery time. My late dog, (not through Epilepsy), took an hour or more to recover and stand. He also screamed when going down, which I was assured was not pain but very distressing all the same.

Those with Epilepsy, whether pets or humans, can't see what the fuss is all about. It's us who witness the fits who are scared. She wont care, honestly she wont. She won't even know she had one.

Stick with it, you've dealt with the heart probs so this is nothing.

You say more than once, "putting her through it." You are not putting her through anything. YOU are going through it. As I said before. She doesn't know anything of the fits.
Honestly Marsh she has no idea. When she recovers, make no fuss as she wont know what the heck is going on, just carry on as normal.

I look forward to reading how well she is doing in a couple of weeks.

Marsh_Samphire

Thanks, good to hear. She's on 0.3ml twice a day of 4% Epiphen.

I managed to get her to take a dose with some food earlier. I still need to persuade her to take the second dose late tonight.

She is totally zonked, as you put it, she can't stand up without wobbling and staggering, she must feel stoned!

Mutter_2

Marsh_Samphire wrote: »

Thanks, good to hear. She's on 0.3ml twice a day of 4% Epiphen.

I managed to get her to take a dose with some food earlier. I still need to persuade her to take the second dose late tonight.

She is totally zonked, as you put it, she can't stand up without wobbling and staggering, she must feel stoned!

Arh love her. From memory with mine, it is important to dose 12 hours apart?

Bet she is having a lovely sleepy time. Sure she will be a different Girl in 14 days.

Relax, she has.

RacyRed

Marsh_Samphire wrote: »

Thanks, good to hear. She's on 0.3ml twice a day of 4% Epiphen.

I managed to get her to take a dose with some food earlier. I still need to persuade her to take the second dose late tonight.

She is totally zonked, as you put it, she can't stand up without wobbling and staggering, she must feel stoned!

Yeah, that is the effect it has. A little bit of that will be occasionally with her while she is on Epiphen but she will adapt. Her progress will be gradual, so ask someone who doesn't see her every day to give you honest opinions of her progress, it really helps.

RacyRed

I was just thinking, how are you administering her dose? Do you have an open end syringe thing so you can shoot it down her throat?

If not let me know and I'll try to find one on the freebies board for you, I got one meant for children and it has been invaluable.

Your vet might be able to give you one, there are good ones provided with boxes of Metacam.

Mutter_2

Marsh_Samphire wrote: »

Thanks, good to hear. She's on 0.3ml twice a day of 4% Epiphen.

I managed to get her to take a dose with some food earlier. I still need to persuade her to take the second dose late tonight.

She is totally zonked, as you put it, she can't stand up without wobbling and staggering, she must feel stoned!

Don't "persuade her". Tip back her head, open her mouth and throw the Tab down her throat. No messing, life or death. Choc drop to wash it down.