PCN Code 1 in Camden

RonFog

Hope the usual heavyweights on this site can help with this one. For the past 16 months I have been attending a class in Camden. The class starts at 8pm and I get there around 7.45pm park on a single yellow band in Harmood Street NW1 and have not had any problems. I was away for 4 weeks across February and March but went again last week and parked in the same spot, again no problem. Yesterday I got a PCN, issued at 20.02 code 1. The road is residential and there is resident parking but the side I was parked is one long stretch of single yellow band, from Chalk Farm Road to Prince of Wales Road. The only signs down this road are for resident parking (on the other side) and whilst these signs now show that resident bays are from 8.30am to 11.00pm there is nothing whatsoever saying that parking restrictions elsewhere have changed. I found out that they have, but only by word of mouth, Camden has extended their parking restrictions on pay and display as well as yellow bands to 11pm as well! Whilst it is reasonable to put the extended times on pay & display machines and expect motorists to read it, if you normally park on a yellow band how would you know? As most London boroughs allow free parking after 6.30pm on yellow band, Camden is possibly the only London borough to have such extensive parking restrictions (Westminster has restrictions on resident bays almost round the clock but single yellow lines in the same street are usually available for parking after 6.30pm). As a result aren’t Camden obliged to have a reasonable duty of care to advise these changes publicly? Isn’t this entrapment? Images of the PCN are at the following links on Tinypic:
i42.tinypic.com/213ir7c.jpg
i44.tinypic.com/2s66251.jpg

I suspect that this recent crack down on the motorist is not about keeping cars out of Camden it is about trying to fill the financial black hole that Camden has found themselves in. Only problem is that as restaurants and bars start to close down when motorists find other less punitive areas to visit, so Camden will end up losing out on Council tax. A vicious circle!

Coblcris

You are almost certainly within a CPZ.
From you text I take it that the yellow line was there when previously parked there without detriment ?
Entrapment is erroneous - and American.

RonFog

Help, what is a CPZ? central parking Zone? What is the significance? Yes the single line has always been there.

Coblcris

Controlled Parking Zone.

peter_the_piper

CPZ's mean that parking is controlled within the zone at the times stated on the big signs you (possibly) passed when entering the zone. They only put signs on syl's if the times differ from the ones on the cpz signs. All bays etc should be marked as normal.
However not all cpz's have the signs on all entrances to the zone, its worth checking if all roads leading into the zone have the signs up and that there is one on each side of the road on all roads over 5m in width. This assumes 2way roads, 1way needs only 1 sign.

RonFog

Am now up to speed with CPZ, although I had thought that the whole of London was a controlled parking zone, clearly I am wrong. I have now been able to look at Camden’s website that clearly shows all their parking zones and the times of controlled hours. The problem is that the nearest CPZ sign is more than half a mile away, and entering a zone at night is not only difficult to read, the signs are unlit, but unless your attention is drawn to the fact that parking restrictions had changed why would you even look for them? Driving in Camden at night the motorist has more than enough to contend. On the website Camden states the following under their reasons for the change:

Why the change?
This change addresses complaints from local residents about evening visitors to Camden Town causing parking problems, particularly in the side streets off Chalk Farm Road. The results of a local consultation supported this view with the majority of residents supporting longer hours. Our Environment Executive - Sub Committee considered the report before making the decision to go ahead with the change.
We have tried to define a new sub-area that is sensible and clear for the public to easily identify and for us to clearly sign on street.

Is a sign half a mile away from a street that you have parked in for over a year enough for Camden to say that it is “sensible and clear for the public to easily identify and for us to clearly sign on street”? Do I have grounds for appeal?

RonFog

Had a drive around Camden last night and discovered some interesting facts:

1. Camden is divided into a series of CPZs each one tripping into another, there are large unlit signs that all give a slightly different controlled time. There are no signs showing that you are leaving a zone (zone ends). I believe that Camden is using the umbrella of CPZs as a way of avoiding the necessary street signage which is probably more costly to install.

2. These zones are all very large and motorists can and do forget which zone they are in even if the signs do comply. The guidance seeks to address this by stating that a CPZ should not be larger than 12 streets. The zone I was parked in CA-F(n) contains over 40 streets and the nearest sign from where I entered the zone was half a mile away. Because its size it was impossible for me to check whether there are large at all the entrance points to the zone.

3. This is taken from Parking guidance and statutory guidance 31st March 2008 issued by the Government to Local Authorities:
“Clause E5: The Secretary of State's view is that motorists cannot reasonably be expected to read, understand and remember the parking restrictions at the entrance to a Controlled Parking Zone that covers an area of more than a dozen streets. CPZs rely solely on zone entry signs to give times of operation and to remove the need for time plates within the zone, except on lengths of road where the restrictions apply at different times to the rest of the zone. The area of a CPZ should, therefore, be restricted to, for example, a Town Centre shopping area.”


4. However Clause 5 continues:
“A single zone covering a whole town, or suburb of a conurbation, would be much too large. Conventional time plate signing, without zone entry signs, should accompany the yellow sign markings where large areas have waiting restrictions. Time plates are not necessary where there are double yellow lines.”
To get over this Camden have divided their zones so that each have slightly different parking times ie. Saturday parking ending 5.30pm instead of 6.30pm in the next zone.

Please please can someone let me know if I have grounds to appeal?

Coupon-mad

Have you asked about this on pepipoo.com RonFog? That's where the experts on PCNs and lines and signs are:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Best of luck with your appeal, IMHO worth a try but take pepipoo advice first.

RonFog

Just wanted to say I won my appeal at PATAS this afternoon "Procedural impropriety" as at the time of parking I was able to download an old map showing incorrect parking zones. It's worth appealing provided you have done your homework. Thanks to Coupon-Mad for all the advice.
RonFog

peter_the_piper

Great for coming back to let us know, mostly we assume silence means a win.

Coupon-mad

RonFog wrote: »

Just wanted to say I won my appeal at PATAS this afternoon "Procedural impropriety" as at the time of parking I was able to download an old map showing incorrect parking zones. It's worth appealing provided you have done your homework. Thanks to Coupon-Mad for all the advice.
RonFog

That is great news! Well done for seeing this through to a win!