crazy charging policy

KimYeovil

jonsmum wrote: »

Many thanks to all who have replied. It still seems grossly unfair, especially to those on a low income.

It's not grossly unfair. It is more fair than the alternatives - why should barons like Cardew with their multiple residences (:)) be subsidised by and pay less than those on a low income stuck in a bedsit? Pincher is correct there.

If you are on a low income why are you on such an nPower tariff in the first place - you should be on one of their other cheaper (but unfairer) tariffs that do not have this weighting. Shop around and switch to a better tariff.

markharding557

I fail to see how npowers sculpting is fair,on the contrary it seems to be rather unpopular

Gerrard_8_lfc

markharding557 wrote: »

I fail to see how npowers sculpting is fair,on the contrary it seems to be rather unpopular

Npower are unpopular.

Were profits not down at Npower this year with the amount of people leaving them ?

KimYeovil

Many things that are 'fair' are unpopular. This is moneysavingexpert - of course users of this forum are going to complain about having to pay their fair share.

You are not genuinely saying you do not see that seasonally weighing the charges is fairer than a flat distribution? Other than it may be confusing to some?

Pincher

Cardew wrote: »

The tier system suits some customers very well.

For instance I have a annex that has little use but a seperate gas and electricity supply.

I use very little gas and electricity every year, so I look for a tariff without a standing charge. The cost of my total annual consumption of gas and electricity is less than I would pay in just standing charges.

People with second/holiday homes, or spend several months out of the country each year, similarly gain by having no standing charge.

I have always postulated the possibility that such low consumption existed, like quarks, and maybe those hidden people in the Amazons.
Hello, we come in peace, don't mind the sniffle, I'm just having a cold.:D

If somebody only uses £50 a year, there is no profit in it, however you "sculpt" it.

So they have tailored the majority of the available tariffs to suit a minority of low consumption users? And then "sculpt" the tariff to make them pay the standing charge any way. Doesn't that sound mad and a waste of effort to you?

I think the ruse to mislead the uninformed into thinking they are saving two hundred pounds on standing charge used to work, but surely you must be a real dumb dumb to fall for it now? It's now just a legacy convention that makes it more complicated to compare tariffs.

Cardew

Pincer,
I am not attempting to justify the two tier structure, for as you say, it makes no difference to the majority of customers as they pay the standing charge in full regardless of the which tariff they chose.

However, the firms are competing for custom and for myself(for annex) and some other customers a firm offering a 2 tier system will get my custom over a daily fixed charge.

Have you 'postulated the possibility' that those people who do shut off gas for the summer months would simply cancel their gas supply if there was no two tier tariff and they had to pay a daily standing charge?

P.S.
My dual fuel discount for the annex is applied to the electricity account. Some quarters this discount is larger than the actual expenditure!! So they actually pay me to supply my electricty - I feel quite guilty, but can live with my guilt!!!!

Pincher

Cardew wrote: »

Pincer,
I am not attempting to justify the two tier structure, for as you say, it makes no difference to the majority of customers as they pay the standing charge in full regardless of the which tariff they chose.

However, the firms are competing for custom and for myself(for annex) and some other customers a firm offering a 2 tier system will get my custom over a daily fixed charge.

Have you 'postulated the possibility' that those people who do shut off gas for the summer months would simply cancel their gas supply if there was no two tier tariff and they had to pay a daily standing charge?

P.S.
My dual fuel discount for the annex is applied to the electricity account. Some quarters this discount is larger than the actual expenditure!! So they actually pay me to supply my electricty - I feel quite guilty, but can live with my guilt!!!!

Respect on the reverse charging electricity.:money:
I think there's a difference between ultra low consumption and not use energy part of the year.

With the £50 a year user, all the units are at Tier1, but overall he saves £150 or so on standing charge. Which is great, but hardly in the majority.

With the six months a year £300 customer, you just end up paying all the Tier 1 units due for the whole year in the six months you do use gas. My EON tariff talks about "Normal units first 2680kWh per year", so they have every intention of charging the full 2680kWh at Tier if I do switch off the gas for six months of the year. Cancelling gas for six months of the year to avoid ~£50 of standing charge means you have to be on a standard tariff, so you lose on the discount Tier 2 units that you could have had, so you might end up losing if you get a hard winter.

I am putting the case for the majority, for whom comparing tariffs would be a lot easier without Tier 1 and Tier 2. I'm not advocating abolishing the tiered system, which is useful for a minority, but I would like sanity to return for the majority. I won't get it, of course, because they use Tier 1 to disguise increases which I described in the EON FixOnline 7 thread.

DVardysShadow

Pincher wrote: »

Bring back standing charge, for the love of god!
This is mad.

Are you sure it's not spelt "scalping"?

Pincher wrote: »

My preference is for them to stop pretending there is no standing charge and just make it clear what the rate is for you gas and electricity.

Whenever a door stepping salesman try to tell me they have no standing charge, trying to mislead me, I want to strangle him/her for insulting my intelligence.

Are they fooling anyone with this non-sense? If so, these poor sods should be put into a sanatorium for their own protection.

Pincher wrote: »

Have you become Pod People? Why have another way to collect the standing charge, when you can, you know, COLLECT THE STANDING CHARGE.

All this cat and mouse from both sides is just a reaction to one stupid manoeuvre piled on top of another stupid manoeuvre so that customers end up paying the standing charge the utility company wants to charge in the first place.

Actually, you pay about double with nPower. But summer is coming, so you have paid the heavy part of your standing charge. Now you can enjoy the cheap part of the sculpting nonsense. Move away in October.

Cardew

Pincher wrote: »

With the six months a year £300 customer, you just end up paying all the Tier 1 units due for the whole year in the six months you do use gas. My EON tariff talks about "Normal units first 2680kWh per year", so they have every intention of charging the full 2680kWh at Tier if I do switch off the gas for six months of the year.
.

I don't think that statement is correct - but stand to be corrected!

I believe every company using the tier charging tariff(except NPower of course) charge pro-rata per day for Tier 1 units. So if you were with E-On for just a 6 month period you would pay for just 1,340 kWh at the high tier 1 rate.

For example if you look at your bills, are you saying you were charged for all 2,680 kWh straight away on your first bill? and all the subsequent bills that year were only for tier 2 units?

That would make NPower's 'sculpting' look mild!

Pincher

Cardew wrote: »

I don't think that statement is correct - but stand to be corrected!

I believe every company using the tier charging tariff(except NPower of course) charge pro-rata per day for Tier 1 units. So if you were with E-On for just a 6 month period you would pay for just 1,340 kWh at the high tier 1 rate.

For example if you look at your bills, are you saying you were charged for all 2,680 kWh straight away on your first bill? and all the subsequent bills that year were only for tier 2 units?

That would make NPower's 'sculpting' look mild!

There's a Chinese saying: "wool comes from the sheep, in the end it's always the sheep that get fleeced."

They want you to pay for the supply infrastructure, which the National Grid (or is it called something else for gas?) charges them, and the traditional way was the standing charge. They want every household to contribute, £150 say, but people don't want to pay it, so they spread it out across the year so you wouldn't notice it so much, but they need the £150, one way or another.

If everybody became low users, and only use 100kWh a year, Tier 1 will be £1.53 a unit, Tier 2 will be 3p. I suppose you will only use 20kWh in that case, just to avoid paying the full £150.:D

I don't know what will happen if I actually switched off the gas for six months, never tried it, but the wording says to me the first 2680kWh in any one year cycle is fair game, as far as EON is concerned. I suppose it's time to put out the bat signal and ask for the EON rep to clarify.

It's a farce. The vast majority end up paying every penny of the standing charge they wanted anyway.

Good thread. So therapeutic to vent.:)